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Ancient Agate with inscription
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Posted by: TASART Post Reply
11/08/2015, 15:12:19

I know the Agate bead is ancient, I don't know about the inscription, anyone familiar with this type of writing? Remember, could be a mirror image....thanks!

11815tsag2.jpg (158.2 KB)  11815tsag1.jpg (147.4 KB)  


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Inscription
Re: Ancient Agate with inscription -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Will Post Reply
11/08/2015, 17:34:57

Hi Thomas,

It's a beautiful bead. I think the inscription may possibly be in Kufic script or one of the other forms of early Arabic writing. Recently I saw a Nishapur pottery dish (10th century) in the Brooklyn Museum with script that looked rather similar (attached image). Kufic, I believe, was first used in pre-Islamic times, but it became one of the most valued forms for Islamic religious writing. I don't think in itself it's a reliable method for dating an artefact because it was copied for many centuries in many Islamic cultures.

Cheers,

Will

nishapurC10:kufic-inscr:brooklyn-mus.jpg (15.1 KB)  


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I believe it says "Allah"
Re: Ancient Agate with inscription -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Rosanna Post Reply
11/08/2015, 20:30:32

There is a lot of variation in the way Arabic letters and complete words are written - but I think this says Allah. When engraving on stone, the normally cursive parts of the letters would naturally get reduced to simple lines. I will send your image to a friend who is fluent in Arabic and see what he says.

Just my humble guess at this point.



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Re: Ancient Agate with inscription
Re: Ancient Agate with inscription -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: lapzz Post Reply
11/08/2015, 23:21:58

No, that inscription maybe something else but it does not say ALLAH swt.


Lapzz



Modified by lapzz at Sun, Nov 08, 2015, 23:31:45

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Not a match, but...
Re: Ancient Agate with inscription -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
11/09/2015, 03:07:07

This looks like it does have some similarities.


Related link: Arabic inscription on ring

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another view
Re: Ancient Agate with inscription -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
11/09/2015, 06:37:49

Thank you for the responses, this bead is out of the Swat Valley in Northern Pakistan, if that would help shed some light.

ts-aga-al-11915.jpg (84.0 KB)  


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a comparison
Re: another view -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
11/09/2015, 07:52:14

Here is a comparison of scripts/symbols I put together from the bead and online sources, the top image is from my bead.....there are explanations in the link

ahllah-type-ts-11915.jpg (30.0 KB)  

Related link: some explanations

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Silk Road
Re: another view -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
11/09/2015, 09:24:43

Considering where Swat is, another possibility might be something from the Silk Road - areas now included in Turkestan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Kyrgistan, and Xinjiang.

Could the script be vertical? Could it refer to something Buddhist instead of Islamic?

Per Wikipedia:
In Central Asia the Uighurs viewed the Chinese script as "very prestigious" so when they developed the Old Uyghur alphabet, based on the Syriac script, they deliberately switched it to vertical like Chinese writing from its original horizontal position in Syriac

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Uyghur_alphabet

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongolian_script



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Silk Road......I think you hit on something
Re: Silk Road -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
11/09/2015, 10:12:02

The mirror image of the bead compared to Mongolian script...Thank you, I am leaning in this direction!!! Good sleuth work and thank you Chris!

mongolian-ts-11915.jpg (20.9 KB)  mongolian-ts-11915a.jpg (79.0 KB)  


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Relationship between Tibetan and Mongolian
Re: Silk Road -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
11/09/2015, 10:12:55



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The Wikipedia article seems to say that this is the word for "scripture"??
Re: Relationship between Tibetan and Mongolian -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
11/09/2015, 10:16:15



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Re: i think this is kufid
Re: The Wikipedia article seems to say that this is the word for "scripture"?? -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: alipersia Post Reply
11/09/2015, 10:42:39

Hi every one.
thx thomas for sharing this nice agate.
i have to say that i am agree with will and it is kufid calligraphy.
i have seen several on agate as seal and many bronze sample.reading them
is very difficult because they have no dot and are from oldest kufid calligraphy.i have friends that are able to read your agate but i need time.here is one of my bronze rings and it is a seal (i don't know i should call it seal or stamp)from early time of kufid calligraphy .i took
this pic some month ago and sorry for poor quality.i also will do some search for you to read your agate inscription.
cheers
Ali

rsz_1۲۰۱۵۰۹۱۳_۱۲۱۹۲۸.jpg (142.0 KB)  


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Thank you Ali
Re: Re: i think this is kufid -- alipersia Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
11/09/2015, 10:57:52

Always nice to hear from you!



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Kufic Alphabet Chart and Allah
Re: Thank you Ali -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jrj Post Reply
11/09/2015, 12:05:16

On the basis of an uninformed scan of the Kufic alphabet chart (http://www.sakkal.com/instrctn/sq_kufi_alphabet.html), the word could be Allah, reading from left to right. It will be interesting to read what a knowledgeable person has to say.



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Re: Ancient Agate with inscription
Re: Ancient Agate with inscription -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: rubyzane Post Reply
11/09/2015, 13:35:11

I've (hopefully) provided a link here to a great article showing the different styles of Arabic calligraphy. Collecting beads & amulets with this beautiful art has always been one of the largest & most favorite part of my collection, although I'm not familiar with what your bead says. My husband is familiar with much Arabic so I will ask him whenn he is at home next. But it definitely (at least to me) appears to be in the Kufi style. It's incredible however how it was almost identical to the Mongolian script you compared to, so perhaps not! I've never seen beads etched in Mongolian script, but I will need to read and research more about this. It's a beautiful bead however..lucky you! Lynne

http://www.sakkal.com/ArtArabicCalligraphy.html


Related link: http://www.sakkal.com/ArtArabicCalligraphy.html
Modified by rubyzane at Mon, Nov 09, 2015, 13:37:11

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Thomas, look at this one
Re: Re: Ancient Agate with inscription -- rubyzane Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: rubyzane Post Reply
11/09/2015, 13:59:00

Thomas,
Check out this link... it appears to be the same at the end of the script. My husband did look at the photo of your bead, and although he wasn't certain, he believed it was similar to "Bismillah", so I was investigating online and this came up. I do believe it is the same as what was on your bead (just the last "word")... Lynne


http://fineartamerica.com/featured/bismillah-3-seema-sayyidah.html


Related link: http://fineartamerica.com/featured/bismillah-3-seema-sayyidah.html

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Yes, right, another convincing example! thanks
Re: Thomas, look at this one -- rubyzane Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
11/10/2015, 06:18:03



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How about Hindi or Sanskrit...
Re: Ancient Agate with inscription -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: ShuD Post Reply
11/09/2015, 17:09:57

put bar on top and maybe it's incomplete.



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thanks....but
Re: How about Hindi or Sanskrit... -- ShuD Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
11/10/2015, 05:48:36

after looking at the available images of Hindi / Snaskrit, I am certain it is none of these



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Re: i think this is answer
Re: thanks....but -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: alipersia Post Reply
11/10/2015, 09:34:10

Hi Thomas
after visiting many links about kufid calligraphy.i found that there has been more than ten way for writing kufid.your sample is one of them which is without dot and not easy to read.if u look from right to left it is
B,S,y or t,M and from left to right is F or GH ,T,S,B, .as u see last alphabet could be read M from right and F,GH,from left.from right we can read it bsym or bstm .from left could be ftsb,ghtsb.it could be also a talisman that only one who wrote this word is able to tell the meaning of alphabets.i would be happy to hear some experts in kufid calligraphy tell us more about this bead.
happy hunting
Ali

1_11815tsag2.jpg (158.2 KB)  


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Thank you Ali
Re: Re: i think this is answer -- alipersia Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
11/10/2015, 09:51:39

this bead gets more mysterious as the possible answers get more plentiful



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Re: Thank you Ali
Re: Thank you Ali -- TASART Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: si Post Reply
09/24/2018, 14:44:04

I know it's three years later but this is medieval Persian and I'm pretty sure it says "bisla" which is a family name.

cf: http://islamic-arts.org/2011/islamic-calligraphy-600-to-1250-a-d/



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