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Posted by: DOGBONECRAZY Post Reply
01/27/2008, 07:27:45

Hello All;

A bead (pendant) is made from some kind of nut in the Congo by the Pende (spelling?)

29mm X 12mm 3mm hole.

Enjoy

Sincerely
Thomas Mercer
Dog Bone Crazy

jungleboogie.jpg (144.6 KB)  


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Looks like a Pende shape. Do you think it is tagua nut?
Re: Sunday Show & Tell... -- DOGBONECRAZY Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
01/27/2008, 11:55:58



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Re: Looks like a Pende shape. Do you think it is tagua nut?
Re: Looks like a Pende shape. Do you think it is tagua nut? -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: DOGBONECRAZY Post Reply
01/27/2008, 12:08:25

Thank you for your insight Carl.

The pendant was a gift the person who gave it to me only remembered the tribe but was not sure what kind of nut the pendant was craved from. Any other ideas?

Thanks
Thomas Mercer

congonut-1.jpg (103.0 KB)  


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Re: Looks like a Pende shape. Do you think it is tagua nut?
Re: Re: Looks like a Pende shape. Do you think it is tagua nut? -- DOGBONECRAZY Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
01/27/2008, 12:24:47

Hi Thomas,

Traditionally Pende face pendants like this were carved from ivory and the newer ones are carved from bone. What makes you think it is a nut? Although it very well might be tagua nut, it could be bone or even ivory although I cannot tell from the image.

Thanks,

Carl



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Do you think it is nut? Yes,
Re: Re: Looks like a Pende shape. Do you think it is tagua nut? -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: DOGBONECRAZY Post Reply
01/27/2008, 13:19:26

Because the person who gave me the pendant thinks it made from some kind of nut. I don't think it made out of ivory or bone because it is very light in weight and it does not have the graining of ivory or bone.

Thank you for your great input. Now I will try to find a simular pendant made of tooth.

Thomas Mercer



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Re: "Tagua nut" ?
Re: Re: Looks like a Pende shape. Do you think it is tagua nut? -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
01/27/2008, 14:01:43

Hi Carl,

This is an example of one of those problems I am always warning people about. Using one name for different things, or calling different things by the same name, and thereby confusing other people as to what the thing is and what the name indicates.

I'm not saying you have instigated this—but rather that you seem to be a victim of the confusion.

Tagua palm nuts come from South America. They are popularly called "vegetable ivory" because they can be carved into objects and products and will resemble bone or ivory. Their use is easily ca. 100 years old. Lots of literature supports their history and functions. (I have documented beads, necklaces, prayer bead necklaces, buttons, needle cases, etc. From present industries, we know that some wonderful work is produced from them, now.)

If we think about it, the names "tagua" and "vegetable ivory" are respectively specific and general. Like saying "Kleenex" and "face tissue." LOTS of face tissues are made, but only one Kleenex—but in spite of this, most people refer to all face tissues (regardless of brand name) as "kleenexes." They say, "please give me a kleenex." They don't say "pass me a cheap bargain-brand knock-off tissue."

In the 1970s, ivory-like carvings made from large hard off-white seeds became available out of Africa. When these were referred to as "vegetable ivory," my reply was: "no, 'vegetable ivory' is tagua nut from South America. You have the wrong continent." Usually the reply was "well, it's the same thing," OR "what's the difference"? Or (of course) even more vitriolic words about my unfathomable need to classify and correct everything (as they saw it). Even Peter Francis offered the opinion that these African seeds, even if they were not tagua were at least a sort of "vegetable ivory."

In the 1980s, with the growth of beadmaking industries in Indonesia, yet another hard off-white, ivory-like seed material came into popular use, that was again grouped with "vegetable ivory," and mistaken for "tagua"—this being the buri seed. However, the buri seed problem was further compounded by the fact that these were dyed different colors, and then misrepresented as whatever that color resembled. Yellow-to-brown ones were called "amber," and red ones "carnelian."

Whatever the region, material in question, or how it is or may be represented and/or misrepresented, in the arena of ivory substitutes, there are lots of vegetable materials (hard off-white nuts, or pods, or seeds) that can be carved into ornaments that will resemble ivory (or bone). It would be practical and useful to have recognized generic names (to identify groups or sets and subsets), as well as specific names that refer to specific plants' products. But unless people decide to use these names with care and respect, the classifications, divisions, and recommendations are pointless.

And the result will be that someone who shows a thing from Africa will be asked if he means this is a thing from South America.

Jamey



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Victim indeed, I confess.
Re: Re: "Tagua nut" ? -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
01/27/2008, 18:05:58

Hi Jamey,

Yep, you are correct. I did check on "Canarium palm" per Stephany's suggestion and it might be the "nut" (or seed) that this particular carving, if it is indeed of African origin.

Thanks for the detailed message and clarification. It's like in the South, all soft drinks are Cokes.

Carl



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Really? Even Sprite?
Re: Victim indeed, I confess. -- Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
01/28/2008, 02:03:56



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Sprite, 7UP, Dr. Pepper...........you name it
Re: Really? Even Sprite? -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Carl Dreibelbis Post Reply
01/28/2008, 05:13:45



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Re: Carved nuts
Re: Sunday Show & Tell... -- DOGBONECRAZY Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Stefany Post Reply
01/27/2008, 17:00:08

Well, I've seen (and have examples somewhere..) this elongated shape nutshell carved into african-looking mask designs.
If I remember rightly the nut is Canarium ?something, and has a slightly triangular cross-section. I think your pendant might be one of these.

The various light-coloured flesh palm nuts that are carved and may be used as substitutes for ivory grow today in various tropical locations -they are ivory-coloured, with a dark skin -generally scraped or polished away.

Tagua nut is one, also Corozo palm nut.
They were widely used to make buttons too.
Lots of those carved beads in rough patterns come, or came in the 70's onwards, from Kenya. I still have a sackful.

Stefany



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Kind of nut
Re: Sunday Show & Tell... -- DOGBONECRAZY Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: hendrik Post Reply
01/28/2008, 10:28:37

Hi Thomas,

I looked it up again. The pendant is from the Pende tribe from Congo and probably made in the fifties when it was still a belgian colony.
Lots of belgians, working in the colony brought souvenirs(once in a while original pieces of art) back to their families while visiting them every couple of years. That's how these carvings ended up back here. They were made out of the hard pit of a fruit from the "muhafu"(canarium schweinfurthii). Other substances from the tree were also used for coloring raffia clothes.
Sculpting the pit was part of a tradition independant from the ivory and wooden masks, also worn as pendants. You can find more in "L'Art Pende" from L. de Sousberghe, 1958.

Best regards,
Hendrik

pende01cop.jpg (35.1 KB)  pendenkldetail.jpg (79.2 KB)  


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Re: Kind of nut
Re: Kind of nut -- hendrik Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
01/28/2008, 11:19:08

Wow, thanks Hendrik! If one does a Google image search on the scientific name, all sorts of interesting stuff pops up:

http://snipurl.com/1yg4f

Best regards,
Chris


Related link: http://snipurl.com/1yg4f

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Thank You Hendrik!
Re: Kind of nut -- hendrik Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: DOGBONECRAZY Post Reply
01/28/2008, 12:36:28



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