Hi Jamey,
Thanks for your help, any clue as to the date of manufacture?

Warm wishes
Sarah

Hi Sarah,

I can't say specifically, but—like the vast majority of Venetian beads we can find in the marketplace—they probably date from between ca. 1880 and 1940. These were the years of the greatest production of lampwork beads.

Jamey

Hi again,

I just took a tour of the Picard site, thinking there might be one or some of these beads shown there. However, I didn't find one.

JDA.

These were one of the lampwork types made as jewellery beads rather than for trade, so not generally found much in Africa.
You found them in Europe, didnt you?
I have a number of them in different colourways, both spherical and pointy-ended oval. The colours (of mine) are not so typical Venetian, they might well be Czech/Bohemian.
A characteristic is that among the one or two of mine that are broken you can see the pattern is not merely on the surface but the body of the bead has half in each colour, swirled and spiralled around the equator (like stirring treacle on a hot custard pudding), and including a band of avventurina glass.
My reason for suspecting non-venetian manufacture is that some I have are half translucent maroon, half "greasy yellow", others are cream combined with translucent purple. These glass colours are much more familiar in Bohemian glass jewellery.
As to their date, I have had them, same colours in graduated sizes on long over-the-head strings in the 1930's style.
Although the clasp isnt shown, its likely to be another clue suggesting
Bohemian, and the cord which looks to me like the flossy rayon-type "artificial silk" embroidery cord that was often used at that time.
Stefany

Hi Stefany,
Thanks for this , I did buy these in Europe. The red is very bold and vibrant.. I have seen other Bohemian beads of the same shade. The clasp is a large silver barrel screw type.
I appreciate everyones help.
I looked at the Pickards site too, and did not find any simular under Venetian beads.
Very grateful for everyones help
Warm wishes
Sarah

Hi Stef,

At Picard's I was looking for a sample card (based on a vague memory). No implication that "Africa" was involved in my reasoning.

The beads I have were bought here in the US.

The colors you mention seem as likely to be Venetian as anything else. Perhaps the reality would strike me differently than the effect of the names. "Greasy yellow" is a very typical Venetian color. For that matter, it's Chinese too.... However, I have seen several permutations of these beads in real life. The beads, themselves, are pretty cogent and comparable to other Venetian beads, in terms of sizes/graduation, and bead shape/proportion.

In any event, I would not rule-out Bohemia/Czechoslovakia. I wish I could recall where I saw them on a sample card (if indeed I did).

Jamey

Stefany's comment on the cord very useful, but I think they were re-strung on this. Recently restrung is possible. Notice the very large knots compensating for large holes in beads but not very well--original necklace could have been on a chain but very likely with spacer beads that are now absent -- perhaps more of the much smaller beads you mention at the end, but do not show.

Since Stefany is doubtless correct that these were made for a specific necklace type, look at how the beads are not all oriented in the same direction (from red/white standpoint), and not symmetrically arranged as to color orientation.

Originally I would bet there was a pendant or some larger beads on center, and the colors were oriented symmetrically as to color-orientation on either side.

The glutenous or oily/waxy appearance also occurs in German-made beads marketed in the USA as 'flames' with white/red, white/orange, white/yellow and a sort of scroddled, slightly lumpy appearance to the marble surface. One of the photos here seems to show this, too. I believe these marbles were made 1930s-1950s. But I haven't seen the 'flame' marbles with goldstone, which occurred more definitely pre- World War II (copper shortage during the war and a few years afterward prevented making the copper-flake embedded glass).

Interesting and pretty beads!

Snap

Oh dear, unfortunately the term 'scroddled' is a somewhat esoteric one from definitions of pottery types. My apologies.

It refers to the result of mixing clays of different colors so as to leave streaks of the original color of at least one.

Here is a photo of one 'scroddled' item, the base of a small stoneware box used probably for snuff (the cover has a grid by which to shred something fairly soft, probably not a nutmeg). With it is the side of a similarly-sized box, earthenware, with a mixed-colors slip glaze that some mistake for 'scroddled' ware, but it's purely a surface treatment--probably a 'trinket box' for such things as collar studs. Both probably English, roughly middle of 19th century.

The marbles don't scan or photograph particularly well. You may be able to make out that while these were machine-made, there are seams that can be felt between the different-colored glasses. Perhaps the glasses had slightly different cooling/hardening rates due to different flux or other components. The red, white and green one has a distinct fold running through the red, just visible on its right side. Of these, most were distributed by the Christensen Agate Co., but some were sold either by Peltier Marble Co. or Akro Agate Co. The sort of waxy or mutton-fat appearance also did not scan well. I used to think this was due to a feldspar component in the glass, but now am not so sure.

Cheers,
Snap

No need to apologise.-
This is a new term for me, but I know this swirled slip effect and have several necklaces of threaded agateware bead elements, such as the outer necklace shown on page 103 in my book "Beads!" :
The glazed swirled coloured slip discs shown there each have 4 holes and were designed to be threaded together in a particular way, with 2 matching "End Spacers" that draw the 2 parallel strands together to one, and a cylindrical bead used as a toggle at one end with a loop for it at the other.

My impression of the lampwork glass beads under discussion here is that the 2-colour swirling is very controlled and gives a rather regular spiral at intervals around the girth of the bead. The "Scroddled" ceramic items are more like randomly scrambled.

Obviously the ceramic material even when rather liquid behaves differently from molten glass, but both give a stirred or swirled look
that can be decorative.

You use the term for glass marbles. Is it generally accepted in the marble-collecting world?

Stefany

You ask if 'scroddled' is term used in glass marble-collecting circles.

Not to my knowledge. In marble-collecting world, there is much attention not to the presence or absence of different-colord glasses, but to their specific pattern or lack thereof. Flame, corkscrew, hurricane, Boy Scout, bumblebee, Popeye, many other terms, defined by both pattern and color combination. If you think this is weird, compare with 'skunk,' 'eye,' 'feather' and 'gooseberry'.

I made the mistake of making an analogy, which is a reasonable way to understand the difference between mixed glasses and surface treatment. But in the world of beads that differentiation certainly does not cover all cases, with all the varieties of layering, trailing, inserting recycled beads, inserting pieces of cane, mosaic and so forth.

I did not mean the term 'scroddled' to apply to beads broadly. I meant it to refer to seeing different types or shades of glass that were not well marvered, and to refer to some marbles in which one of the white glasses looks waxy or fatty--that I have seen especially where distinct glasses are swirled together. But 'swirled' can mean blended as in a melting pot, so I wanted to clarify that they were *not* blended but had adjacent areas that were different in character.

I am afraid that your using the terms 'swirled slip' and 'glazed swirled colored slip discs' does not paint a clear picture for me, and unfortunately I lack a copy of your book. In pottery 'scroddled' is patterning in the body, whether random or not, while slightly mixing colored slips on the surface is 'marbleizing'. In China in the Tang Dynasty some wonderful pots were made of carefully layered different clays that were then cut, rejoined, cut and rejoined again to produce wonderful mosaic-like patterns that it took a master to retain in making the finished dish or container from this material. In England, similar techniques were used I think in the 18th century to produce flame-like and chevron-like patterns. Both of these effects were within the clay body.

Whereas the marbleized slip surface treatment as a pottery glaze was more like combed feather-patterns on beads: a material applied on the surface, often multi-colored, manipulated only on the surface.

In pottery the difference between body and glaze is much clearer than pattern-forming and decoration techniques in glass. Even in wares that have layers of colored slip, allowed to dry one layer at a time, and then cut through -- cameo-like, or think of Daum Nancy -- there is not any discussion about whether the slip becomes part of the body. It was applied as surface slip and cut through to expose the different color of slip or different color of body, then fired. The essence is the technique, since once fired the whole is supposed to stick together! Yet the slip-glaze composition is different from that of the body, whereas in glass this difference is physically much less except as to color and opacity.

Still there were parallel concerns in each field. Disparate materials had to be compatible in rate of expansion during heating and rate of shrinkage (in pottery) or rate of solidification (glass) during cooling. In marbles one can often see that one of the colors must have been just slightly harder than the other when final rounding was done, so the result was often not seamless.

In beads this disparity, whether due to flux, colorant or opacifier is not such a determinant, since there is less emphasis on absolute regularity. In beads, unlike marbles or ceramics, the slightly 'off' item might be reheated and an adjustment made. A bead can be ground and then fire-polished, whereas no such thing can readily be done with pottery, and such treatment of marbles would be much more costly than to just discard defective items. If of uniform material, discarded marbles could be melted en masse for re-use, but I doubt the flames and corkscrews would be melted down.

I think I am done!
Snap

This is very interesting! Thanks Snap!

So, "Scroddled" is a term borrowed from pottery and applies to the stuff the item is made from. If we borrow the term then it could apply to these beads because the pattern is made of different coloured glasses that go all the way through not just on the surface.
My bead components are most likely created with liquid clays (=slip) in shallow moulds that have been stirred a bit, but as I understand in pottery slip is still clay, the glaze which is often shiny and clear goes over the surface afterwards in a separate firing, and works similarly to varnish as it gives a coating that protects the pottery that would otherwise be porous. My beads have a clear shiny surface beneath which the swirled random pattern can be seen.

Another pottery term for coloured clay patterning added to a pot surface before any glazing seems to be "Inlay". I had a potter friend who tried versions of millefiore designs in coloured compatible clays (using ceramic body stains) and added slices to the surface of her pots. They were glazed afterwards.

Howard Newcomb in the '80s made beautiful chevron-type beads from different coloured porcelains, some can be seen on p. 47 in my "Bead Jewellery Book".
I'm sorry if not everyone has these books. All I can say is they are in some libraries and we have plans to reprint if you cant find copies at Amazon.

Phew! I'm off to help wth grandchildren today- (no. 3 arrived finally last week)

Stefany

Stefany,

Now I see how you were talking about mixing slips. In my interest in the field of pottery, casting slips is a factory process almost completely unrelated to the art of the potter and kilnmaster. I lose nearly all interest in ceramics produced this way, although there can be much to be said of the decorator's art. I was not at all thinking about bead-making from clay slips, nor about polymer compounds.

Sure your slip-mixing would reasonably relate to 'body' of beads.

The matter of glaze and body is not nearly as simple as body vs. glaze, despite the efforts toward descriptive terminology. The ancient kilnmasters knew that in addition to temperature, duration of 'soaking' (as is said now) at a specific temperature and in specific atmospheric conditions have much to do with what happens on the surface as well as within the body of wares.

By the way, whether the body is fired separately prior to glaze application and glaze firing, is very variable as to time, place, and ware. Some wares were fired multiple times: once for body and then several times for layers of glaze -- the famous almost mythical Ru ware of China appears to have been made in this way. Enamel-decorated porcelain could have been fired once for body and glaze maturation, then cooled and decorated with enamels which were again fired at a lower temperature. But the finest porcelain would have had separate firings for body and glaze. This was naturally a much more expensive process than the single firing of much glazed (or unglazed) earthenware and stoneware.

Considerable effort and skill maintained specific atmospheric conditions at specific firing stages to produce such effects as the glorious blues and greens in certain ceramics. These conditions also affected underglaze decorations with copper-red and with cobalt. The same clay fired in high-oxygen or low-oxygen conditions will turn out different colors and different surface condition. The Chinese potters also varied kiln conditions from reduction (low oxygen) to higher oxygen (oxidation) conditions during the course of firing and cooling to produce specific effects. A lot of loose ash in the kiln will produce a glazing effect. Salt-glazed stoneware is the result of introducing regular NaCl to the kiln atmosphere at a given temperature stage of firing.

Discussions on this board sure do cover a lot of ground.

I wish you success in your bead work!

Snap

In any field of research covering a lot of unfamiliar ground is what's really interesting, to my mind.
My father who researched inventions and industrial history used to say that seemingly useless information is worth more than following along all the usual routes, because it is from hitherto unrelated facts that new discoveries are made, (although he may have had a better way of expressing it!).
In the field of beads, a lot is already known about some beads, especially those which are highly valued, while there are others that may not even yet be deemed worthy of any research. They are generally very inexpensive in the marketplace as well for the same reason.

Stefany

I found this image from last summer. There is a similarity, at least to my eye, and I have no doubt that these are approx. 1920s Venetian beads. I only wish I had a necklace full of them. And, bead #1370 in Picard vol. 5 shows a related bead. That one is a long elipse, half blue, half white. The blue is swirled over the white, and has little lampworked florals. It is described as from a Venetian collection.

Yes Joyce the ones you show are Venetian jewellery beads, no doubt of that.
But they are not made the same way. Yours are one colour with a layer of another transparent colour and the avventurina added on top of one half, before any swirling was done.

The beads shown at the start of this thread are made with half the pale colour, and half the darker colour, all the way through.
If you broke the bead it would be clear. (or happen to get a string with some already damaged, of course)

Stefany

Here's another image from last summer. From what origin do these appear?