...by the way....: I have another affection to these beautiful Moroccan
cotton blankets.....

The necklace you made is just gorgeous.

My boyfriend is Moroccan and comes from the area where you buy these beads. I also am in love with the blankets and carpets from Morocco. I have many of them.

Maybe I will see you in Morocco sometime! We can drink attay maanti together. That would be fun!

Beslama,
Dari

Bismillah!
Hi Dari,
...and thanks for the compliment!!
I am several times a year in Morocco and would be glad to meet you there. So, if you ever decide to make a trip, let me know and we will see each other, inshallah...
"Attay maanti"...??? Is it the mint tea...?? Too sweet for me...I prefer coffee "nuz-nuz", half hot milk, half strong espresso...and I have as well many blankets, that are used as carpets, blankets and table cloth...:-)
Warm Regards

Uwe

what a fascinating place it must be. I wouldn't want to go without someone who knew their way around, but someday I'm going to get there! Thanks for the romantic posts! Steve

Hi Claudian,
take the plunge! It is such a hospitable country, you will always find someone who is delighted to help you, offer you tea, conversation, dinner, and of course a carpet! I promise that you will not regret it, We drive down 3 - 5 times a year from the UK with 3 - 4 kids in tow! We look for a new route to take each time for a new step into the unknown...... We love every minute, and the scope for adventures is endless! I think I am starting to sound like a Moroccan tourist board ad, so will stop there!!! In short if you get the chance go!

Pic is Yasmina dune when the lake is there, ( not often seen!)

Just for showing and for my own fun I put some of my findings together...The center piece with the silver coins fom the first picture is with 58 x 68mm (2 x 2.7inch)pretty large and has a weight from more than 100gram. It´s the biggest, I´ve found....The silver beads left and right the center are from Jemen, I would guess...
The 3. picture is an old "Tcherot" talisman "box" (nothing to open or to put in, but they call it box....)made of silver. These are coming mainly from the Tuareg silver smiths of Niger. It´s one of the nicest I have seen until now...the leather appliques are newly made in a traditional style.... 4.2 x 4.2inch

Warm Regards, wherever you are...Uwe

Hi Uwe, lovely pieces, Would you mind me asking which town these were found in?
The tcherot boxes have always fascinated me, I had been told that they contain magical and religious writings to protect the wearer. This in mind I bought a damaged one a couple of weeks ago whilst in Mhamid.
Here are the contents!
The tcherot is not so fine as in your pic and is made of brass. (I have and treasure a simular one!)
Warmest wishes,
and heres to many more happy visits to the Maghreb!
Sarah
Ps the pic is on the route across the Tiz n Test. Phew!!! I always try not to look down!
S

Thanks Sarah, and thanks double for give us this insideview into a Tcherot. I have known about these religious writings, but for me it has been always like the "Schrödinger´s Cat" problem, so I didn´t want to open...grin....
I have made the road on the other side, between Marrakech and Quarzazate. With beautiful sunshine, from Marrakech coming, and with clouds and fog from the pass on, where it start to go down again...and there were no walls at the side...
Are you living in Morocco or are you just on a longtime travel...? Isn´t it beautiful and amazing there...:-)

You will know, that you find a lot of jewelry in Morocco, that´s made in Asia, mostly India...So this would be my first idea always for your shown necklace, but I have no knowledge at all about this style and other African countries would be possible as well...somebody else will know...
I feel a little jealous, to adopt, you are there right now...I miss the sunshine and all the smell....Take care...Uwe

I know the road of which you speak, I was snowed in up there in January! The Tchika pass is two way traffic, the one in the pic is single track! So not fun when you meet a truck going the other way. We take a trailer and 4 x 4 which is nt too easy to reverse back down a mountain Hairpin! This pic is at the very top of the Test pass and the wall is the only piece we saw! the overhang above the road is always falling down too!
Thanks for your ideas for the bone necklace, I only really have knowledge of the North African jewellery. This is definately from Elsewhere!!
I am back in the UK now, but love Morocco, and visit as often as I can.
I know what you mean about the smells...one moment orange blossom and wonderful, the next .....yuk unspeakable!!! I love the contrasts of Morocco the best! It keeps you on your toes!

for showing the tcherot contents. A rare opportunity.

And when you get a spare moment, please send me ALL of those Hand of Fatima pendants.

Have fun!

Carl

....it seems, that spare moments are rare for YOU, or with other words: I (and I know it´s a WE...!!) miss your posts here!
It´s very easy with the pendants..., just send me ALL your money, and I will bring them (and some bonuses...)in person to you...lol...
All the best...

Uwe

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder", they say....

Authenticity obviously too. Really is...?

All pieces shown here are - with the exception of one - are new as day, fresh from the workshop and do not have to be found, leave alone to be collected yet. Any desired amount of them can simply be bought. Or ordered!

That, of course, is valid for the Nigerian piece (on third photo) as well. This piece is, of course, NOT "old" neither! The leather appliques, as the poster writes, are anything but traditional style neither, not only, but also because such pieces are not worn, traditionally!, as pendants of a necklace.

Vara!

PS
I dunno if was said so, but please note, the few pieces of minor-grade amber (in all, color, size and condition), shown in the same post, are neither Moroccan.

PPS
I recommend, Uwe, giving up searching the tourist markets. There is nothing to find of collectible value, at least not in the price-range of pieces you´re showing here and in other posts. Not since at least 15-20 years! There are basically just two shops left in all of Morocco, where the serious collector can find pieces of value. This collector, to make it clear, should come with a wallet worth, AT LEAST!, 20.000 Dollars. 50.000 were way better, especially if this collectors wanted to get more than one, maybe 2-3 or even 4 pieces. Even then!!!! one has to take great care. Clever and perfect forgery is widespread and comes unnoticed by the avarage collector too often.

The pieces presented by Uwe are of NO collectible value at all, unless one were seeking a sweet-little holiday present. None of them, as harsh as this may sound to (some of) you, represent any collectible value. For the possible statements, I already see being posted in response - those of the kind "authentic or not, I like them" - I can only repeat my opening statement and add "so what....?"

and collectibility, level of beauty/desirability, and value are all subjective in this world. You know that, Juergen. I am trying to be nice to you right now.

Hello Joyce,
I understood you were trying to be nice. I know how hard it is to act against nature.

Though I might not have read all posts on that subject, I read about "age" regarding the "Nigerian pendant". Further was I assuming - wrongly? - that this side deals with pieces of ethnographic value and not with recently produced! pieces for the tourist trade!

Actually I am a BIG-BIG fan of JEWISH (not Berber!)enemal work in the legacy of Moroccan jewelry.

Sometimes even mass-made tourist-pieces - like those shown in this thread - can be nice and this ones here are surely not ugly. I never meant to say so. Instead it was my point to make clear Uwe´s pieces were new, not old. I didn´t say, nor meant, they are ugly! Collectibles, old pieces, authentic pieces, those with ethnographic relevance are a different issue though.

Vara

It definately is going against nature...maybe it's the "holiday cheer" or the eggnog. I know that I am not alone.

I DO appreciate your clarification, however, and would also appreciate an image of Jewish enamel work in Moroccan jewelry.

My opinion, as a collector and researcher, for over thirty years, is that MANY things are "collectible"—whether they are old or new. It has to do with quality and originality, as well as age, rarity, and context.

From 1987 to 1998, I was a beadmaker myself, making beads and jewelry from polymer materials. And I believe these items are very collectible, for reasons such as the above. I haven't touched Fimo for about eight years now. That fact alone ought to make the stuff I made in the past just that much more rare and collectible. I MAY try to create some polymer beads again in the coming year—and I expect these to become "collectible" too, as my revival productions (again in very limited quantities, and of considerable technical merit and beauty).

As a collector myself, I don't care whether an item is old or new. I DO care whether it is being misrepresented, and/or sold at an outrageous price (based on false claims of age or antiquity, and "rarity"). This is misrepresentation—pure and simple.

Just my two-cents' worth.

Jamey

Hi Joyce.
I am not certain of the makers of this piece, but it is my favourite enamel work piece sourced to date.

Hi Sarah,

hey...you have made a robbery on a wedding...?! Beautiful...!! I would like to show some of the silver/enamel pieces in detail tomorrow, intersted in what you can say about the age, if you will find the time...Thanks for the already given informations....!! Warmest Regards...Uwe

Hi Uwe,
Thank you. I would be delighted to offer any help if I am able. Please be prepared that my knowledge is not vast, and that if I do not know I shall be honest and say so.
Take care, and keep travelling! ( I think for me and probably for you too, a passion for experiences and exploration is a source of great delight!)
A dear and departed friend and I shared a passion for what we as kids called Trufflehunting! This was beach combing in our youth and auctions then travelling and gathering when we were older, I think that the search for 'gems' will never end for me!!!!
Warmest wishes
Sarah
pics of....
. road closed in January, we waited here for 24 hours before it was opened again!
. Truck struggling on ungritted ice after the snow plough had opened the tchika pass.
. Sunset in the Jbel Saharo

than what is this? plastic just made recently for the tourist trade or what? Plese explain Vara!

Do I detect a certain jealousy towards a succesfull German Ebay seller?

This subject I am sure could be debated for eons!

I buy a large amount of jewellery from Morocco. Some old, some new, some somewhere in between!
I agree that all of these have a place in creative history, but also that correct ID is essential .
Here in can lie the problem. It is so easy to buy items in good faith , described by Moroccan vendors in the most romantic terms, as Antiques. The key is research, making mistakes, and learning from them, and then yet more research.

The following pictures are all of new production beads. I know that these are not old , because I have them made by artians in the South of Morocco.
Moroccan vendors would happily sell them as any age that the purchaser wished to believe them to be.
I sell these beads as exactly what they are. New production traditional design beads.
There are vintage versions....and there are occasionally antique examples. As stated in an earlier post....you are unlikely to find antique pieces going for a song. Most are with reputable dealers. To find the real gems it is neccessary to spend time and to build trust in the remote villages etc. Then if you are very fortunate you may find the genuine treasures.

I shall post some images of various 'Ambers' later too.
The old adage buyer beware seems to fit in with this as in many other areas of collecting.

some other new production beads from Southern Morocco.

Hi Jamey,
I could not agree more.
These will be antiques one day too, and I think that Uwe has great taste in Jewellery the pieces are beautiful in their own right.
All of them are pieces which I would happily offer a home.
S

Quote: "Hi Jamey, I could not agree more. These will be antiques one day too, and I think that Uwe has great taste in Jewellery the pieces are beautiful in their own right. All of them are pieces which I would happily offer a home. S" End quote

===============================================================

Didn´t I say we would get exactly this as answer?
ppfffffffffffffff.....!!!!

Vara "Nasi" Nares

PS
Jamey:
Why this understatment regarding your FIMO works? I always found it exellent and still have the light-blue, rectangular shaped "slice" depicting a Pharanonic-Egyptian motive or image, you gave me last century. And this: there isn´t much to add to your standpoint on what is collectible. I agree! True is nevertheless - without elaborating on specifics - that "older" pieces, for most and generally spoken, are considered to have a higher collectible value, than 2-cents-items from a bubble-gum machine. Of course I agree that principally anything can be collected: even honey; transcripts of "collect calls" and old news!

Dear Anne,
it dawns on me, that you are the "Kiffa-lady" from Austria, who contacted me once with questions (?) on Kiffas. Am I right? Greetings to you!

Only now I saw your photos of the new silver-enemal beads from Southern Morocco. They are OK, but way better quality is possible. I guess you know that and have a reason to buy market-quality.

I am writing for another reason! Let me quote you "To find the real gems it is neccessary to spend time and to build trust in the remote villages etc. Then if you are very fortunate you may find the genuine treasures." and quote

Excuse me, but I strongly object against this allegation. You seem to be of the idea, that finding "gems" (as you took it) were a matter of trust. Neither in Morocco, nor elsewhere on the planet this is or ever was the case, since the word "business" was coined. Though it is a sweet-romantical idea, it just proofs you´re not really familiar with Morocco, Moroccan business and values, if you allow me to say so. It´s a naive standpoint of a sweet soul instead, I fear. Moroccan reality is very different!

That goes for your second allegation - or was it just an assumption? - as well. There is no such place one can call "remote" in Morocco. This is not the 18th century any longer, Anne, excuse me! Tourists cruising the country for the last 40 years, heavily for the last 3 decades. What seems to be remote - places like Goulimine, Zagora, Tatta, Foum-Zguid or Akka - is remote only for those, spending much of their time in Marrakech and the likes. The ones I mentioned, as well of those most have never heard about, are all "touri-places". Not only since yesterday, Anne.

Moroccan dealers have sent our their "handymen" into all four corners of the country. In the 70´s and 80´s! None of them would even dare to try these days. Try it, go searching, go "hunting" as Uwe 'nuz-nuz' Wandtke takes it, but you´ll return empty handed. Betcha!!

I´m not saying your "idea" doens´t contain any logic. I am just saying you´re 30, surely 20 years too late.

Now you might say "one never knows, have you knocked on every single door yourself?" Yeah, those were the counters or arguments I like the most. "Killer-arguments" nobody in the world can sufficiantly answer. Let me try anyway, you´re open minded enough to agree. Let´s assume you were lucky, you´d somehow managed to meet this last old lady without family (...), but a huge "tresor Alibaba", filled with the finest Moroccan gems, villagers had ever possessed. How would they look like?
Would it be a fine old silver necklace, niello-ornamented with big round pieces of golden amber, cherry-red coral and a neolithic pendant of the darkest blueish-green amazonite, the market has ever seen? Or is more likely looking like a tragical piece of white metal, with dyed camel-bone and red painted cement beads to represent amber and coral?
Even if it were a hybrid, a piece you could possibly convince yourself to be be interested in - given your many days of sweat´n´ache before reaching your "forgotton garden of good and evil by midnight".

During your "thé ala remote" - "nuz-nuz" is unavailable tonight - you´d already calculated the price you´re going to pay, the experienced but fair buyer you are.

15 gr. of red cement, 200 Euro the ton, adds up to be...., never mind, 5 Euro. 80 grams of metal with some silver,....dedede, make it 30 Dirhams, sorry, Dollar, OK, Euro. Camel are rare in the area, I agree to 10 Euro for the amber. Buttons, wood, the single jemenite bead,... I admit it´s authentic, OK...all together I can pay.....eh-eh-eh-eh...

"1500 Dollar", grandma says in a camel-bone breaking voice, three times as confident as your own. No matter how often you recount, you don´t get further than 1300. Dirhams though! Hahaha, a misunderstanding. OK Granny, I´ll add this 200. Take it as a bonus ( to ease the tonus).

What is the author trying to tell you? A little story of 1001 remote nights? Not at all. This, or very much like that, is what you see and what you get!

You think about Moroccan jewelry in terms of:

"the more remote - the better the quality"? WRONG!

You think "remote" means cheap? HAA! THE OPPOSITE!

You think old Grannies don´t know? BETTER THAN YOU!

You think remote means getting old pieces? NO WAY!

You think remote is remote? SORRY! YOU´RE THE SEVENTH "TOURI" KNOCKING THIS WEEK!

Back to real! I´ve said the same thing over and over - on this site too - there are no antique pieces of relevance left for you to buy in Morocco, no matter how remote. Since Nixon was using "orange agents" and Elvis wishing "Aloha", the days when "touris" (as well as other aliens) could be lucky to find an authentic piece of Moroccan jewelry are over.
By the way: I´ve said the very same thing about "Kiffas around 1998 and not many were believing. See what you get nowadays....! Same story!
Demand may be endless - supply is not.

What worsens the story of authentic Moroccan jewelry - for the avarage Western buyer and collector at least - is the very fact that more and more and more rich Moroccan collectors show up. And those Jews felt being driven out of the country in 1967. They got all the funds they need. And all the connections, you can´t dream about. What is left nowadays for people like you and me is semi-oldish pieces which might be collectible in another lifetime.

But this is, I learned here, what most of you understand about collecting anyway. Buy new pieces today, be patient, give it some
time - what are some 50-60 years? - and let your grandkids be happy to find some antiques!

Maybe....!

Vara Nares

PS
This post should help you getting through Christmas and must last April or so. I come back knocking around Easter, if I may. May I....?
Excuse me - I have some other reportings to do now!

PPS
don´t forget to study the Kazach anthem. I was told it´s the alternative Christmas tune 2006 in U, S and A!

1)Anne: equals to Kiffa beads the only correct thing in your monologue.
I have never been to Morocco.

2) Red : is a BCN member but not ME!!!!

So please get your bearings right and sort out whom you adress/attack/insult? etc.....

Hi,
Wow you have very strong feelings, thanks for sharing them.
My name is Sarah.
I am not a collector, of kiffa, of anything material in fact. If i collect anything I guess it would be interactions and experiences.

I buy the new production beads , because people ask for them. As simple as that! I travel in order to expand my awareness of the world and of the people who live in it.
The things I have commented on here are truthful accounts of my experiences.
When I speak of remote and trust, I am in mind of places which do not appeal to tourists. The El Hamaan mines, Aghbar, ElBahthl khrer, and many many others. Places in many instances which are not even on the map! Why was I in any of these places? By Chance....welcomed to a wedding by friends, searching for an elusive mineral in an area which is behind military barriers helped by a Moroccan general who I met by chance on a train trip years ago. A man with no interest in or knowledge of beads, jewels or any transactions which keen eyed and minded business men angle for in other regions.
The things which I have, in many cases come to me, A gift from a family, who I have been able to help in someway on my travels. A contact given by a school teacher in a tiny mountain school where the whole village know that the lady with the red hair gave books and pencils to the school by the box to ensure that all of the kids can have them. The families whos childrens feet are tucked into shoes from the same lady. etc etc etc.
I do not turn up and ask, I turn up and interact. Through loving the experiences of travelling and meeting people the other aspects emerged.
So yes, you are right I expect...I am a romantic .....I am naive. I also romantically believe that everything and everyone has worth .......this worth is not of course always financial.

I have huge respect for your obviously vast knowledge and the depth of the collectors business interest, but not everyone has the same intent or is driven by the same factors.
I suspect that Uwe and I have a love for the magical moments as much as for the items we find along the way. My principal motivation for travel is to experience not to possess. And I certainly do not aspire to be anything other than this.
I can imagine that a trip to Morocco without the privilage of friendship beyond commercial interest would be a dull and empty experience.
Have a wonderful Christmas. Remembering of course peace and goodwill to all men.

Hello dear Sarah and Anne,
smiling....!

Please excuse that I mixed up names,....and persons. Sorry, for being incorrect and superficial on that! It hasn´t been my intention, of course!

I too wish you and everybody else as well, lovely and peaceful days and a good year 2007.

Vara

Hi Vara.
Thank you for your good wishes, I hope that you and all contributors here will enjoy a fabulous array of Seasonal festivities...
warmest wishes
Sarah

Hello Anne,
no, of course not! The little amber beads, Uwe W. has shown in that post, isn´t plastic. It´s real amber, a fossil resin (Succinit), from the Baltic sea.
I meant to say - possibly I haven´t been clear enough - that Uwe´s amber beads are of "Malian origin" (so to speak). In other words: the vast majority of Succinit as raw-material has been exported during the past centuries from the Baltic sea to West-Africa, notably Mali, and has been worked into beads there, not in Morocco! Moroccan dealers, even nowadays, import most of their amber - much of it NOT! for use in jewelry - from Mali.

The essence of what I was trying to say, was that West-Africa and/with Mali was the main place of Succinit imports, not Morocco. In that sense it is more true to call this "Malian amber", not amber from Morocco.
Another little clarification, if you want!

Jealousy towards a succesful Ebay dealer? Of course you expect me do deny such allegations, don´t you, Anne? Jealousy, those who know me better would immedeately confirm, is not a term I am thinking in. I do not really see your point, Anne. How do you come to such a conclusion? Am I, maybe, an unsuccesful Ebay seller? Or, maybe, am I no Ebay seller at all? Though you are wrong with your assumption, you are not totally off-track, I easily admit. It´s true that I very much dislike when "an X is sold for an U", as a German saying goes for those, who misrepresent things, collectibles or not. There is so much "wishi-washi-bla-bla" in this world, that it´s truely hard to take, without raising it´s voice (what we got here, is, of course, just an innocent example, based on a lack of knowledge, rather than a misrepresentation on purpose). To get big applause for such superficial statements, true, is what angers me. If you, Anne, believe that jealousy is another word for anger ("relative anger", actually more a slight frustration)you were not so far off-track.

Joyce: regarding "Jewish vs. Berber(-work)". I think it is widely known that enemal on silver (actually also gold!)in Moroccan jewelry is exclusively a Jewish technic. The Berbers just took over, learned from the Jews, being active mainly, not only, in Southern Morocco, around the city of Tiznit. Though they have a big output meanwhile, it´s basically just one Berber family - some 50 km outside of Tiznit, in a most wonderful setting of the Anti Atlas mountains - doing all this work. They were the only ones being trained by the last Jewish craftsmen, before they left the country, right after the "6-day-war" in/on Sinai, in the late 60´s of last century (30 years ago), when they felt they were no longer save in Morocco (same thing occured in Algeria and the so-called "Kabyle-jewelry").

only 10 more nights, kids...!
from the Wishing-Well,
funny Christmess,
B.E. Nares

PS
text not edited!

Hi Anne,
As promised, some pics of 'Ambers' from North Africa

I am no expert, but can offer the following info.
Copal ( Milked plant based resin is used to make) beads which are sold to tourists as amber. This is made in the Souss region in the South and I am sure in other areas too.
Resin beads are made in Marrakech and are generally referred to as Saharan Amber
There are cross drilled beads on offer in Morocco which are usually said to hail from other west African countries such as Mali and Mauritania.
There are also Saffron dyed horn beads which are offered in many Tourist areas as amber.

I give this information based only on the production of beads which I have seen and the selection of beads which been offered in Morocco within the past 5 years.
I know that there is much more to learn, and shall endeavour to expand my knowledge on each and every trip.

the third pic in the previous post is current production from Marrakech

a few more pics

These are in left to right order,

Saffron dyed horn beads from the Souss region

The others are widely sold as Saharan Amber, or as Amber Trade beads in Morocco. The quality and colour can vary hugely, I am not as yet aware of the age or origin of many of these beads.

Hello Red,

Most modern imitations of amber are made from thermosetting phenolic plastic that was developed in 1926 (in the US). Beads of this material, from any context, must postdate this year. The thermolabile or thermoplastic beads are harder to date, because this TYPE of material is older. However, most of the beads we see are most likely 20th C. products.

I would estimate that thermosetting (phenolic) plastic imitations outnumber thermoplastic imitations by at least three or four to one. That is conservatively speaking. The phenolic percentage may be (or may have been) even higher.

Nevertheless, I am writing about the beads I have documented since 1972, that were presumed to be (and most likely were) "older" plastic imitations of amber from Africa. In recent years (in the past ten years particularly), amber fakes have been coming out of China, that clearly were intended to copy older African fakes—and many of these are thermoplastics. So the statistics are now different from what they were in the recent past. I can't estimate how much new Chinese plastic has been taken to Africa, and insinuated into the beads of local people. It may be a considerable quantity.

Jamey

Hi Jamey,
Thank you for your valued information.
You have given me some insight into issues which have puzzled me for some time re buying in Morocco.

For example I am often offered the Saharan Amber beads, and told that these are old beads. Often i see very simular which are not given the same age description. This is not in itself unusual in Morocco! However, the age distinction has been made by some dealers who I would generally trust to be truthful, due to the verification of other info given re jewellery purchased. If the thermoplastic has been made for sometime, it would seem that the information could be valid.

I would be grateful if you could provide a link to any work you may have compiled on the subject.
thank you S

You will find a lot of useful information here.

Curiously, there is a general perception that the folks in Morocco "know their amber," and that their word can be trusted (and often it can, I'm sure). But, in my amber lecture, I show about six images that all purport to be "amber," bought or acquired in Morocco, and all of various fakes. I think this demonstrates that where amber is greatly admired—that may be where the most fakes can be found.

Jamey

Sold in Russia 1983 as 'amber', probably plastic. Very very light weight, the buyer was not happy to have them compared to 'pop beads'. Largest 10 mm diam. Strung on very white fiber, probably cotton, not even knotted. When tourists were able to visit the west-central part of the Silk Road up to around Samarkand, such items readily available. Vendors at least knew what *should* have been there long ago, and that the eye of the traveler would be occluded by romance of the past.

Cheers,
Jadeterrace

1) phenolic resin - also called "cherry amber"
2) genuine fossilized amber - called "Morrocan or Mauretanian or Fulani Amber "
3) four focal beads between Yemen globes: old "bone amber" from Morocco i.e. dyed camel bone beads

Dear Red,

It is true that some authentic copal beads come out of West Africa—more so in the past five to ten years than at anytime since the early 20th century. However, since about 1972, tons of plastic beads have been coming abroad from West Africa (primarily Mali), that are CALLED "copal" (or "amber"), but are not that. This was one of the primary topics of my amber article from 1976—to tell the truth and teach people how to make realistic distinctions and identifications.

The beads you show here are plastic copies of amber (or "copal").

Jamey

I don´t know, when you have been to South-Morocco the last time and which kind of experience you have made in which way, but that picture, you try to create about Morocco and the Moroccans, is still wrong and affronting, as I said to your comment on 7/18/2006. If the only reason would be your $20-tea, just forget about, it was a joke anyway...
I don´t know, where you have been, seeing masses of tourists? Agadir is the center of tourism, and if you start there to a trip to Marrakech, then Tafraout and maybe Guelmim after, it´s possible, you will see always the same tourists there, that you have seen at the beach from Agadir. They bring them around by busses ...If you don´t go to this places on weekends, if you walk through the souks of Marrakech on a thursday night in March, you don´t need both hands to count the tourists you will meet. Latest since that Sept. 11 tourism brake down and even the big Hotels at Agadir have problems. I have made trips through this country, where I didn´t saw any tourist for weeks....
I don´t believe, that all things from „the table“ are touristic pieces, if that doesn´t mean, all things, that find my interst, just become touristic, because of my interst and my touristic status. Maybe the beads or other items are not as old as I thought (this information would be more tasteful, if it doesn´t come in that typical context of arrogance...), that hurts a bit (does it feel good...?!), because I gave wrong informations to others....but at last I haven´t shown all this for showing „antique treasures“, but for their own beauty, and I still think, some members had fun just for that, collectible or not...Same thing with the Tcherot, that is beautiful worked in silver and worth every $ I paid for...
Maybe you know only two places at Morocco, to find nice antiques...there are much more, if you should open your eyes, talk friendly to the people and, of course, if you are willing to pay the price for antiques....

I know, that you have much more knowledge than me in many parts of the jewelry and beads topics, but the style, you are communicating around that, was hard for me to stand before (much more on the other forum, years before) and is still...It´s kind of tragical, that it´s not possible for you, to share your knowledge in a way, that´s more acceptable for others. From my profession I have to communicate with difficult minds all day long, so there is no need to do as well during the rest of time...to choose and to ignore is the difference to Pawlow´s dogs.

And to this forum...

Please take my apology for wrong descriptions about the age of some pieces, I have shown here before. Nothing was shown because of it´s age, it´s worth or for collectible reasons, only, as I said to Jürgen, for it´s own beauty from my point of view.
My start as a seller on eBay and finding this forum happens the same year and during the first years I tried, to separate strictly one from the other, for that reason, that I didn´t want to make this forum to a place of commerce and promotion. But from time to time I sell and sold to members (are you that Uwe...?)..., and all clients on eBay are and were invited to take part on this forum from the first time. I know, that many clients are „lurkers“ here this way, but so all became mixed up....
Handling the beads, and since some time the silver/enamel jewlery too, is the perfect counterpoint to my work as a social worker, and to make pictures and showing them here is part of my joy, just for fun, for me and, I am hoping (and knowing...), for others too. Oh yes, I am glad and proud like a child, if I have found something, that is rare even for our well known and well sorted collectors here, but it has never been my intention, to make something more worthful by a wrong description. Everyone who feels fooled by me will get his money back of course.

And a word to those, who don´t speak here....I always descripe this forum to others as a place, where friendly people are sharing knowledge...You will have to read a lot more, before you will find another thread, where the conversation is likely harsh. So don´t be scared, it´s still the best and nicest place for beadcollectors and interested people!!! Again thanks to Joyce and David for making this possible!
The bead goes on, and as long, as it will be fun for me and others, my postings too...Uwe

Hey Uwe.
I am glad that you are writing these replies. I think that it shows that you are honourable to do so.
I have seen many positive posts here from those who have enjoyed the chance to share your finds and travel experiences, with great everyday pics of life in Morocco. These are an honest representation of the culture and people and a joy to see.
I also was happy to see your words in defense of the people of Morocco. I must agree that I find that Moroccans in cities and villages alike are delighted to meet and take the time to explore the simularities and differences between our life experiences. THIS DOES NOT RELY ON DOING ANY KIND OF BUSINESS!!!!!
I hope that no one who reads this forum would be deterred from visiting this wonderful country by the negative image which was portrayed here.
I believe that you will meet respect where you give respect in this world.

so please keep sharing! as my 7 year old daughter says....Sharing's good!

warmest wishes
Sarah

PS the pic...
a village (Jorf) celebrates the return of a Hajii from Mecca.

Hi Sarah,

First, thanks for the nice words....and I really like your pictures from Morocco too, even a little „homesickness“ comes up....

....so here are some images and close ups and some work for you (not only, I hope)...grin....terms like „new“ and „old“ are individual in use, and I would appreciate any nearer dating, if possible...take your time...
...when I look at the beads and the pendants, it seems to me, that they are somewhat different manufactured...for me it looks, as if the single elements of the bigger beads were single added, the older the beads are...the newer they are, the more it looks, as if they were „molded“ in one piece (hope you understand....it would be so much easier in german...sigh...). The beads you have shown, look this way and the bigger bead with the coins here as well....It´s just a thought and I don´t know if it could be an argument for age...

...this first one with the coins and the added glass for me comes near those beads you have shown, like molded in one piece, but I can not imagine, why a pretty new bead should be repaired...just another thought...at least the coins are old (and silver), the youngest from 1904....

Greetings to your daughter too....traveling will open her mind in many directions and will be a part of the base for her own evolution...I would be glad to meet you both sometime and somwhere in the south....Thanks for help...Uwe

Hi Uwe,
I will look closely at these pics over the next few days.
A few ideas which may be helpful to you based on the things I have found so far....
Patina and wear are always my first check, it is very difficult ( though not impossible) to effectively age a piece, look at the places where the item would make contact and the kind of wear at this point, it is difficult to replicate this. Also try to be familiar with the techniques used to attempt fake aging...I mentioned in the past a kind of dirty varnish type of substance which is used widely to give an aged look. There are many others!!!

This is in no way a conclusive concept, but I find that there are many different qualities of new production pieces. In respect of the enamelled pieces the thicker gloopier bubbled finish of the enamel usually indicates new production, however there are also many new production examples which have far finer enamelling work.

The beads which I posted are made by Abderahammne , he tells me that he has been sending these to Marrakech for many many years to be sold to the tourists. Before him his father did the same. So what actually counts as new production? I do not know!!

As far as I understand the processes the beads are made by applying the wire to the surface, and not by moulding, but I will check this for you when I am able to do so. I have some pics of these processes which I shall send to you.

Repairs are not in my experience unusual in pieces of all ages, so do not always give an indication of age.

The coins are not always originally with the rest of a piece. I buy them by the bag full, mixed ages and styles, some real, some cast copies. The glass cabachons are often a good indication of the age of the piece that they are directly set into. Very worn glass is often a good sign of age.
And I know that these coins are often added to newer pieces of Jewellery to give a date to point out to an unwary buyer (some vendors even try to pass off the islamic calendar dates in the 1300's as a 700 year piece. As I said buyer beware!!

The Khamsa (hand) pendant with the worn cabachon and great patina is beautiful! If I were to estimate an age for this I would go 50 -70 years.
I always ask lots of questions about where the pieces came from, I am getting good at spotting stock answers, and avoid anything which does not add up!
Could you send pics of the backs of the earrings if you get the chance? thanks

The Boghdad crosses I think are recent productions.
The very small ones I buy now directly from the maker.

The square pendant is a Hirz.
I will need to look again at the pictures, to gather more thoughts!!!

I hope that these ideas will be helpful. I shall post some pics of New production pieces, so the you can make comparisons to items which you may have.

Warmest wishes
Sarah

quote: "This is in no way a conclusive concept, but I find that there are many different qualities of new production pieces. In respect of the enamelled pieces the thicker gloopier bubbled finish of the enamel usually indicates new production, however there are also many new production examples which have far finer enamelling work" end-quote

=====

There are different grades of enemals. Cheap qualities are mostly responsible for bubbles and other mishaps during manufacturing. Also the content of silver, to which the enemal is applied, plays a role!

================================================================================================================================================

quote: "A few ideas which may be helpful to you based on the things I have found so far.... Patina and wear are always my first check, it is very difficult ( though not impossible) to effectively age a piece, look at the places where the item would make contact and the kind of wear at this point, it is difficult to replicate this. Also try to be familiar with the techniques used to attempt fake aging...I mentioned in the past a kind of dirty varnish type of substance which is used widely to give an aged look. There are many others!!!" end quote!

-----------

Yes? Many others? And which ones are you´re thinking about, Sarah? Could you name some? Just,....just 6,7,8 others of the "many others" you learned about? Common! Smile - I´m just kiddin´ you!

From your post it seems you take "wear" and "patina" as the centerpieces of your Moroccan She-lock Holmes work, trying to detect Moroccan forgery in old jewerly. You´re absolutely right. Both are important hints and can tell a lot, sometimes everything, especially in combination. But, this is the real question, how are you going to make this destinction? How do you make this difference between "worn wear" and "hanky-panky wear"....?

Let me insure you that forgery is not a big issue in the more touristy segment of the market. Moroccans do not even lie - and there´s no bigger hobby for Moroccan dealers in the tourist markets, than messing with truth - about the silver vs metal. Most pieces said to be silver, are indeed of the very material. Just...., silver is cheap. 350 bucks the kilo, just 200, given an avarage of 70% silver content. Why cheating for pennies or a few bucks, Sarah? What I am saying is one should not worry too much about "old and new" - neither way you get the real thing. No more! Instead of figuring out how to detect fraud - by the way: does that mean you distrust your beloved, honest-to-the-bone Moroccans - it´s the much better deal to learn about the real thing. Right, both are members of the same family, just the approach is different!
Of course I understand that you take your pieces for real, for being old and precious. And they are - for you. They contain memories of a kind only you can fully understand and appreciate. But what is the value of such knowledge? It´s like with holiday photos. Everybody confirms "wooow, how beautiful", while thinking at the same time "leave me alone with this sh**". Am I wrong? Tell me, do you think I´m wrong?
What I´m saying, what I mean to say is this: pieces of the kind you - and others, unfortunately all too often me too - were showing here are "sweet holiday pics". Tell are not even close to the inner circle of Moroccan workmanship. They may sound harsh to you, but why should I prozac your reality? There´s enough sweet'n'kind applause for you on this site - true, the thunder of clapping in my worst nightmare. Ask Caesar on his last comment on applause - that you´ll be able to deal with some innocent questionmarks. Use both of your ears for completing the picture!

Last question, somehow off-context: did you visit the Marrakech Museum, the one in the Souk, showing jewelry, among other pieces? Have you? How did you find it? I am eager to get your review, if you don´t mind!

May Santa surprise you with the same kind of presents, you had the fun to spread among the Atlas-kids, as you told in another post.

Merry Christmas to you,
Vara!

Jurgen my angry friend!
No one is claiming to have the rarest most ancient Moroccan wonders. We are simply sharing our finds and interests with others. I do not know why this makes you so venomous.
Yes, you have seen and maybe own delights from far earlier times. This is not what we are discussing. Please stop twisting our words to bolster your ego.
You have no idea of the pieces which are my personal choices or in my collection. So please stop imagining that you do.
I have visited Museums in Morocco and beyond, jewellery, ceramics, art etc etc. I think that you assume that all others are ignorant and that you alone are enlightened, I hope that it does not become too lonely in your Ivory tower.
I understood this to be a place to discuss and to expand knowledge, not a point scoring ladder for the insecure.

I do not intend to respond to any further unpleasant communications from you.

So a final Happy Christmas to you and to those whom you love.
I hope that you find peace alongside your elite attitude.

Ps. I find that with a gentler approach to the process and a genuine respect for the other humans in this world the price per gramme for the items you describe is between 5 and 8 dirhams!
Of course this does not apply to ancient artifacts, which as you point out are mostly all in Museums or private collections.

Sarah-naja,
"Jurgen, my angry friend...?"

I ran when people I do not know call my "friend". I run faster when Americans - with a rather different understand of that word - call me so. Imagine what I do, when you call me friend....? Write - I right(!?).

Since we are among ourselves - in the intimacy of "page 2" - we can pretend to communicate in some kind of frankness.

I have been rather kind to you. More than being the opposite of kind! I didn´t say, for example, a single word about your "world on a Moroccan shoest(r)ing". No reason for you to duck, excluding further communications. There had been lots of things to say about the fragile balances in Moroccan mountain villages. And those, like you, disturbing this balance with best of intensions. Think about the shoemaker for one! What abut the guy, his wife and kids, makin' their living on shoe-selling. What about the pride of the kids and their parents? And you mention an ivory tower, insisting the box of pencils you brought was really a full one (to make sure all kids could get one)? How much does a box of pencils cost. 5 bucks? 10? Most likely it had some ads printed on it and had been for free. It´s easy Sarah, easy and cheap (moneywise is meant), to play Jesus, making barefeet Moroccan kids walk on ice. You are not the first intending to do good causing something different, often opposite. I am sure you want the best, but I doubt you fully understand the impact of your aid.

This is a social affair, not (enemeled) beads, right? So bakc to the toppic. My question, if you had seen the Marrakech museum, was not testing your interest in art. It was nothing but a serious question. I even asked, I remember, if and how you liked it. You got me wrong!

"A final Happy Christmas?" In the sense of wishing me to die right after? Taking you by your own language, this is what one could understand.

You say it confirms a gentle approach and genuine respect for people, if you overpay an item. 5-8 instead of 3.5 DH the gramm? If you, one more time - now in the plains of a city - disturb the social balance of a market, finetuned over centuries? This is called "genuine respect"?Better admit you didn´t learn (or wasn´t taught) the lectures of a fine Arabian bargain. Still, and somehow contradicting myself, things in the Souk are not about bargaining. Tourist bargain! Foreigners bargain. Newcomers try to! Most things, definitely those I´ve seen of you here(or those from others you applaused)have a FIXED market-price. Not for the piece. What you need is a scale - better your own one, since most in the market are manipulated - and the ability to multiply gramms with 3.5. It´s easy, isn´t it? All this bullsh**-talk of the kind, "I´ve been able to bargain him down" is plain nonsense.

While you call me arrogant and an insecure, lonely owner of an ivorytower flat, I gave you "hard facts" in return. On qualities, on pieces, on age and on prices of Moroccan jewelry. Don´t you think you "owe" me a little bit more of your kindness. It´s so easy to follow in the footsteps of other peoples prejudices - isn´t it Sarah?

No, I have nothing to forgive you. I believe you´re a good-hearted woman - seriously! Possibly you´re one of the few survivors of the glorious Hippy times.

OK, this is long enough for page 2. If it weren´t for you, my insecure ego had required this to be the "head-article of the day". Smiling...!
Writing, Sarah, is my profession. I write all day and most of the night. For various people and different publications. The last I need to see, is my name chisseled in stone. This is not the "New York Times Magazine", Sarah!

VARA!
who ho-ho-ho´s you!

Hi Sarah,

Wow....many thanks for taking so much time to answer, and yes, it will help, at last to be more aware….Do you know a nice Museum with traditional jewelry/art somewhere in the south…? My next trip will be somewhat between March and May and if I find some time, I would like to go to Ourika Valley for a couple of days, it´s beautiful there in spring time….so Marrakech would be the best, to visit a museum near the way.

An image from the backside of the earrings will have to wait for a while, I´m a little busy…

Thanks again, warmest Regards and Happy Holidays…Uwe

Hey Uwe,
You are very welcome.
I hope you make it to Ourika, good luck if you take the waterfall trail, I am told that there are 7 to see, but must admit that by the time we had climbed to the third. I gave up the climb, and went back for mint tea!
I have a busy week ahead, so hope that you enjoy a great festive season, I shall speak to you soon! Maybe after the overindulgences!
Warm Wishes
Sarah

Ho-ho-ho...!

Why do you think, Sarah´s daughter is closed minded 'UV'...? Sorry, just kidding - a little Christmas joke on the careful use of language.

I was just trying to imagine how extremely open minded Germany must
be - being Europe´s number one in travelling. Guess you were Christmass-kidding too on that one. Travelling educates vs. travelling does nothing but confirming peoples prejudices.

Maybe "cash", I thought, money, or "fluss", like Berbers have it - could be our platform of agreement, but, sorry, you´re wrong here too. The coins you were refering to, as being made of silver, do, instead, not contain a single element of the moon´s prefered metal. Such coins, do not give the slightest hint on the age of a piece, something what does not need further elaboration, I assume! That´s "Catch 33" of Moroccan elementary school of forgery!

Neither - stop joking, Uwe - have this big 'enemeled Moroccan eggs' been made engaging the technic of molding. What a thought!

By the way: why everybody seems to know nothing but the southern part of Morocco, when the talk comes to jewelry. As if the other parts, specificly the north - thinking about Fes, as one example - were a jewelry-free zone! Antique gold-jewelry from Fes, often with precious stones and fine fresh-water pearls, is truely of the noble kind. Uncomparable to southern style (seen as a hole), but definitely worth mentioning, though, without question, it´s out of this league.

Vara

I could go completely wrong, but for me this looks different worked....the coins are french, silver, and the dates are not to see...maybe I will find out later, from which time they will come, but I wouldn´t think, they are as old as the other „islamic“ coins...

second picture again a larger silver/enamel bead...the enamel looks pretty new to me...

third picture shows various silver/enamel beads and my guess would be, that the down right beads are the newest

....the „hand of fatima“ pendant in the first image looks clearly worn....as well the pendant below...the small pendant to the right could be newer (whatever this would mean), the....(no Name for...) looks older...but old...??

the very light „Hand of Fatima“ from the second image has a green, that is different, from the green of the beads, for example...

at the third image one clearly new made earring, next to a similar pendant...here as well the used green is different....whatever this can say....and other earrings with glass added...are they newly made...?

..there are many variations to find on these smaller silver/enamel crosses, and maybe only this could mean, they are produced these days, even if they look sometimes older...the silvercrosses, one and the backsides in a close up, look much older to me....

...same the right cross second image....while the much bigger left one looks more new an not worn...

the last one is a bit out of range...it was sold to me as „from Jemen“, silver, and large....

I hope, you have had some fun with the images, anyway, if „old“ or „new“...you will have seen most of it before on your trips, I would guess....Thanks so much...Uwe

Hi Jamey and others,
Though it´s surely none of my business, what Jamey "darn LOVES" and comments on, nevertheless I wonder on his degree of irnony in this post. Sonce Jamey is know to be "darn serious" more often than not, I wonder if he - like me in another field *** - has a bizarre appreciation for mass-made specimen of the odd kind. Maybe he meant, it´s incredible what some people take for real and simply finds it funny, what some individuals collect.

Maybe we´ll never know what Jamey meant. And appreciates. But this is clear as day. He will defend his statement, now that I start doubting if it´s true, that he is without irnony.

Let me ask you this: what do you think it means, when s/trolling through the Souks of Marrakech, and every single of the 300-500 touri-shop in town (easily detectable as those stores, with either one or two guys sitting outside in the walkway, on a little stool, either asking bypassers one stereotypical question, or, depending on mood and day, issue a statement-of-certainty. The first one consists of a single word and goes like this, if you dare to lay one eye on the coloful ceramics from "Safi": "Germany....?" The other one, for those expected to be cheated already that day, plays the naive card and sounds: "Warm welcome to Morocco, my friend!"

Nobody on "Marrakech-visit-day-2" calling an IQ over Ourika-river water temperature it´s own, feels responding to such mantras are a good choice - most prepare running, when hearing the word "warm" - nobody, not even Japanese-in-groups (excuse the oxymoron) following another Japanese holding an erected shield reading "follow me", would seriously assume to step into such a tourist-trap to have the offered thé-ala-mint - "Moroccan Wiskey, hihihi....".

If this incomplete, but damn true desciption, speaks of a place you would not want to do your holiday-shopping - compliment - you bet that were a wise descision.

This shop is the VERY place, where the pieces in this post come from.
This store or one of his 300-500 partner-shops in town. All of them have such,.... "crosses" ("khmar"), pinned on their walls, often strung on cheap silver-chains from Thailand or India. All in such stores is rubbish, ANY...... SINGLE...... PIECE!!! Mass-made in Tiznit once, meanwhile many artisans moved to Marrakech. More tourists! Easier sales! More money! 5 kids to feet!

It is a development when the poster smells himself, his pieces might be new. That´s one step ahead.

quote: "..hope you have had some fun with the images". What fun might this be? "Pictures-of-Lilly" kind of fun...? I cannot even imagine the sense of putting such items on this site. What for? Leave alone their quality (bad too, by the way) and age, even their collectibility. What a sheer picture might be good for? What is the sense of the rarest bead or the most ordinairy piece of imitation-jewelry, when it comes out of a context? Just show it - no questions asked? Like that....? There is no hint to the makers (and it were damn-interesting to learn something on the makers, their euipment and motivation --- even of the newest pieces). You´re (all) so absolutely right, when saying "it´s more than just old and new", but you don´t seem to have a clue, why this is so.
Most, it seems, do not only do not ask questions. They just DO NOT HAVE any. There are so many different "schools" involved in making such pieces (enemel jewelry is meant as an example)and they could be compared to the "real thing" to see what has changed and find out why. Only specific pieces are imitated. Why is that so? Why certain kind of tourists are intrerested to wear pieces, which are seemingly not from the cultural inviroment. Why that? I do not want to continue - too many questions could be asked. Too many question are asked by those being really interested, really devoted to a country and it´s artistic expression. Everyone must find his own questions, in order to be able to have a discussion, and finally answers on them. Any of this is 1001 times more promising and interesting than, usually in a totally ignorant fashion, showing the most costly bead or jewelry. All of them are lonely, absolutely speechless and mute, tell and reveal nothing of the past. What the heck does it mean, who the hells cares of any "recent arrival from Mali?"

I just do not understand this kind of approach for those calling themselves collectors. Any you call me....arrogant? What is my option, can you please tell? Yes, indeed, more often than not - as my number of absent-days confirm - many of you leave me wondering and in a mood of mixed emotions. To waste the wonderful opportunity, this website offers, is a disgrace to the idea of collecting, in my opinion. Collecting is not just buying and possessing, leave alone dealing, selling, making money with a cultural heritage we Westerners can often only dream about. Collecting means searching for answers. Beauty is surely not the only message this pieces transmit. Nore is it their price, not even age, depending on the kind of questions one wants to ask. Having no questions at all - nobody needs to have all answers - is the real desaster of collecting and the main problem of this site. Don´t you find it sad, even tragic, when knowledgable guys like Kirk were sent to Elba? Underground-rhetoric can show a variety of faces and tones. I feel offended - to finish my point and this post - being asked if I had "fun with the images", certainly when pointlessly confronted with the canon mass made touri-pieces.

My grandfather used to say, when I felt shy to answer his questions, "don´t worry, boy, there are no stupid answers - just stupid questions!"

What might he says if I could tell him out there were people, with no questions at all...?

Knowing him, I assume: "better stupid questions, than!"

VARA!