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I HATE COATED GLASS BEADS!!!! Czech bead experts, please help!!
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Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
02/09/2018, 21:10:22

A past bead mishap is raising its ugly head again.....GRRRR!!
Okay, a small issue in this crazy world, but it's costing me time and money.

Years ago, I made a number of horse necklaces with mixed beads, including a few beautiful, 6mm mottled vintage Czech glass beads in a rusty/brick brown color. But,it turned out that color was a coating on a white bead! With wear, the coating flaked off, revealing the plain white glass underneath. Over the years, a few customers asked to have the necklaces restrung, which I did. But it was time-consuming and frustrating. To make sure I never used those beads again, I gave them away.

Last month, I ordered some faux "sea glass" beads, matte rounds (on Etsy) in a deep sapphire blue. But when the packet arrived, the seller had a note to say they were "over-dyed", and should be washed before using to make sure the dye didn't transfer to clothing. After I washed them gently and dried them, it turned out the "dye" was actually a coating on...yup, plain white glass beads! The coating came off in flacks. They didn't cost much, and the buyer said they'd refund my $. She also said no one else had complained. (Humph. Not YET.) And she said I should ask before buying ANY matte glass beads from ANYONE, because "most manufacturers now coat them instead of etch them." (I use, and buy, mostly matte glass beads in my work, so this is pretty upsetting.)

And this week, when I took off a necklace I made a few months ago, with some copper colored Czech glass seed beads I've had around for awhile, I noticed that both styles--traditional rounds, and some 3-cuts??--were now shedding their copper coating, revealing...Argh!! White beads!! (Okay, sort of translucent, but still....) See image below.

I don't know how old these seed beads are or where I bought them. I'm sure they were from reputable stores and dealers, and I don't think they're that old. Still, they're definitely peeling.

So now I'm freaking out....

I've always relied on small metallic Czech glass beads for attractive but inexpensive accents. And now I'm wondering if I should get rid of all of them?!

How prevalent is this manufacturing process?

I've noticed some new Czech glass beads now seem to have coatings, and that seems to be a trend now. https://www.ebay.com/itm/80pcs-Czech-Glass-Small-Flat-Forget-Me-Not-Flower-Spacer-Bead-Caps-Beads-5mm/112772086488

Does the coating ALWAYS wear off?

Is there a good way to test for coatings? (I've tried scraping with a sharp tool, but it's a pretty tough finish--at first!)

Any suggestions? Thoughts?

20180209_132150_(576x1024).jpg (179.2 KB)  
Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

Modified by Luann Udell at Fri, Feb 09, 2018, 21:11:24

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Some experiences
Re: I HATE COATED GLASS BEADS!!!! Czech bead experts, please help!! -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: birdi Post Reply
02/09/2018, 21:29:16

Long, long ago I had several dirty strands of faux pearls. When I washed them in dish soap and cool water, the coatings began flaking off revealing (mostly) opal white beads underneath.

In the 90s I bought some metallic coated Czech E beads that flaked the first time I wore them, on a necklace, in the shower. They were completely ruined. I returned the unopened packets to the bead store but they would not refund the wetted beads.

Lets see... also I reused a thrift store necklace with matte black beads... I knew it was glass... used it with some Venetian trade beads..... the coating eventually flaked to white.

I bought a rock tumbler, a small one. I did some experiments with tumbling shiny, colored Czech glass beads in grit (or sand) to create matte finishes. My main issue was the holes becoming clogged with sand and other particles.



Modified by birdi at Fri, Feb 09, 2018, 21:35:45

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I'm glad I'm not the only one!
Re: Some experiences -- birdi Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
02/11/2018, 17:52:33

Thank you for sharing, somehow it helps!

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

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Perhaps buy old glass beads that are not coated and then etch them?
Re: I HATE COATED GLASS BEADS!!!! Czech bead experts, please help!! -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jrj Post Reply
02/09/2018, 21:56:45

Perhaps buy old glass beads that are not coated and then etch them? There are a variety of etching treatments that give glass beads a matte finish on the Internet: https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADFA_enUS460US460&q=acid+etch+glass+beads+matte



Modified by jrj at Fri, Feb 09, 2018, 22:01:40

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Been there, done that.
Re: Perhaps buy old glass beads that are not coated and then etch them? -- jrj Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
02/11/2018, 17:57:53

Thank you for the suggestion, I've been doing that for years.
In fact, I've bought Etch-All from Rings 'n Things for years, even though it's gotten pretty pricey. (Miss you, Russ!)

I do etch when I can't find what I need, but it's smelly and messy time-consuming. Some beads take a few minutes, others take an hour. In the case of the seed beads, it wasn't their matte finish I needed, just the copper finish. And EVERYTHING came off. I think perhaps these were similar the ones ones Birdi mentioned....

Not all beads can be etched. I wanted to matte some small blue apatite beads, and they crumbled. Russ said it was was a reaction to the etching liquid.

Rock tumblers are noisy and take a long time.

Usually matte beads are only nominally more expensive than their shiny counterparts, which is why I snag them when I can.

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

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More problems with the older ones
Re: I HATE COATED GLASS BEADS!!!! Czech bead experts, please help!! -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: floorkasp Post Reply
02/10/2018, 09:11:28

I have had more problems with the older beads than the new beads.
It seems as if they have gotten better with the coating and getting it to stick.
The vintage metallic coated beads and pearl coated beads are not reliable and will probably start flaking sooner or later. So those are the ones to avoid.

I have not had problems with modern coatings, with the exception of a few 'picasso' style coatings on seed beads.

In general, testing beads by washing them with soap and water is a good test, but will not catch all.



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Thanks for the tip!
Re: More problems with the older ones -- floorkasp Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
02/11/2018, 17:59:06

I just wish I could wash one BEFORE I buy them!!

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"Supra" metallics are paint. And the colorful "sol gel" coatings now in use will eventually fade.
Re: I HATE COATED GLASS BEADS!!!! Czech bead experts, please help!! -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/10/2018, 09:38:45

I remember when these "supra" metallic beads first showed up, and I was skeptical of their painted finish. Sorry to hear my suspicions were validated.

They also were made in matte pearl, pinks, and purples IIRC.



Modified by beadiste at Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 09:41:40

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That might be the case. When were they produced??
Re: "Supra" metallics are paint. And the colorful "sol gel" coatings now in use will eventually fade. -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
02/11/2018, 18:01:58

I did not know about Supra beads. I probably started buying Czech beads in the mid '90's.

Are there ANY metallic seed beads (matte, hopefully) that keep their finish?

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

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Re: I HATE COATED GLASS BEADS!!!! Czech bead experts, please help!!
Re: I HATE COATED GLASS BEADS!!!! Czech bead experts, please help!! -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Perry Post Reply
02/10/2018, 15:53:53

Today these are called Fired Bronze colors. Supra was a term started in 80s/90s and with coatings like this the technology has been developed for seed beads. In general, seed beads being small have a small surface area and less chance for atmospheric conditions to bother the surface. These coating's popularity and affordability have gotten so popular they have be used on beads with bigger surface area: pressed and Fire polish. There is a sense of next generation technology with these items. For Miyuki they have terms like Duracoat and permanent finish and Czech have had Sol Gel and Terra colors. Each time perhaps an improvement regardless of brand but Permanent finish is a marketing term more than an actuality. The intent is there but with sweat, acid , sun and heat....technology is not fool proof: each coating is meant to be more or less resistant but application and use varies and so do results.



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That was very helpful, thank you, Perry!
Re: Re: I HATE COATED GLASS BEADS!!!! Czech bead experts, please help!! -- Perry Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
02/11/2018, 18:05:19

Perry, are all the finishes you mentioned, do they have the same issues?

I'm feeling a little nervous now! I have a short ton of matte metallic seed beads, from Miyuki, Toho, Czech, etc. Are they all gonna poop out on me eventually?? Oy....

Still, better to know now and try to figure out something else!

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

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Ever the advocate of the hammer test.......
Re: That was very helpful, thank you, Perry! -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Joyce Post Reply
02/11/2018, 19:02:30

Luann,
Just smash a few before you use them to see what's inside...and proceed accordingly.... :)



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Re: Ever the advocate of the hammer test.......
Re: Ever the advocate of the hammer test....... -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Perry Post Reply
02/12/2018, 12:52:43

The walnut test i suppose is greater than the tooth enamel experiment :-) Ive been caught doing the later



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Oh yeah, the click/clink/clunk test
Re: Re: Ever the advocate of the hammer test....... -- Perry Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
02/12/2018, 20:19:51

But it won't tell me which beads are coated, right? :^D

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

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Great idea!
Re: Ever the advocate of the hammer test....... -- Joyce Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
02/12/2018, 20:18:52

It just scares me how many beads I have to test! :^p

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

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Re: That was very helpful, thank you, Perry!
Re: That was very helpful, thank you, Perry! -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Perry Post Reply
02/12/2018, 12:50:57

I attached two of about ten popular Fired Bronze colors. Let me reiterate these are VERY popular , a metallic bronze look for less. Best sellers but we do get some complaints. Is that a 1/2 or 1% of what sold, something like that. They are great colors for the craft but not for a "fine" project. I would have a hard time calling this color collectible, painted, pearlized colors have flooded market due to affordability and improvement. The other type of finish that is usually examined is vacuum colors. Labrador, vitrail and the like. These also are very popular and would say from a "collectible" non-craft stand point avoid larger sizes that a fully coated. Half coated beads 8mm and under appear stable. Same technology: I have heard about complaints on Swarovski Rivoli beads , though few, its similar technology "foiled" back.

DU0500030-01640.jpg (28.2 KB)  DU0500030-01710.jpg (23.2 KB)  


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Are you THAT Perry??
Re: Re: That was very helpful, thank you, Perry! -- Perry Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
02/12/2018, 20:21:58

There's a Czech bead company I've contacted a few times over the years, who has a salesperson named Perry.

Are you THAT Perry??

Always pleasant and helpful, as I recall.
If so, hello!!

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

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Re: Are you THAT Perry??
Re: Are you THAT Perry?? -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Perry Post Reply
02/13/2018, 05:49:03

Probably lol, my family used to own Yorkbeads or York Novelty in NYC and now am at The Beadsmith.



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Glad to see you again!
Re: Re: Are you THAT Perry?? -- Perry Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Luann Udell Post Reply
02/16/2018, 15:51:39

I was thinking York Beads!
I think I bought some stuff in the late 90's, tried to buy things after tgat (beads I was trying to track down) and you were always very helpful and pleasant.

Luann Udell artist & writer Ancient stories retold in modern artifacts LuannUdell.com

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Re: "Czech bead experts...."
Re: I HATE COATED GLASS BEADS!!!! Czech bead experts, please help!! -- Luann Udell Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/13/2018, 08:09:48

The manufacture of glass seedbeads with a metallic coating (that self-destructs) goes back to the 1960s, at least.

These were used by Barbara Francisco (whom I knew) in her kits that featured designs based on American Indian patterns—and were the first modern artistic kits marketed—anticipating what has become common in recent years.

Barbara warned people to not dry-clean the finished pieces, because the coating would come off. She only used these beads because there were no actual metal seedbeads available (that she could buy in quantities and correct sizes for inclusion in her kits).

JDA.



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Re: Re: "Czech bead experts...."
Re: Re: "Czech bead experts...." -- Beadman Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Perry Post Reply
02/13/2018, 09:55:32

Thanks JDA.

ENT
The new technology of surface refinement of the glass pressed pieces is linked with TCT (Termo Colour Technology) and from the year 2010 is marked as ENT (Estrella Nano Technology).


Ultrathin lacquer layers are under the action of the thermal radiation fixed to the glass surface of the beads. The chemical bond between the glass and the lacquer decorative arrangement is setting in. The highly efficient organic coatings have very good chemical and mechanical resistence.

Advantages:

excellent adhesion to the glass
very good resistance against abrasion and scratching and UV (ultraviolet radiation)
high chemical resistance (against water, vapour alcohol, cosmetics)
stability in alkaline and acidic environment
absence of heavy metals (Cd,Pb,CrVI,Hg)
long life time
ENT (Estrella Nano Technology) represents a wide scale of undiscovered possibilities of the application. Already nowadays this method found out the use outside jewellery to decorate chandelier trimmings, packaging and ornamental glass.
_________
This is some of the modern day stuff I get to sling through being a bead slinger, now there are some improvements but beware of dazzling terminology :-)



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Interesting—but not a response to my post.
Re: Re: Re: "Czech bead experts...." -- Perry Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/13/2018, 15:04:58



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