Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/06/2018, 15:58:33
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Posted by: Joyce David, David Post Reply
02/10/2018, 09:46:21
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Posted by: paigar Post Reply
02/11/2018, 10:28:59
Magnificent!
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Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/06/2018, 17:27:33
Modified by Frederick II at Tue, Feb 06, 2018, 17:38:09
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/06/2018, 18:18:14
Old glass rods made 50 years prior still in bundles in a storage room? The beads I bought from Hands of the Hills display the spiral starbursts, which are applied liberally, whereas the new beads have maybe 2-4 murrine around the circumference.
Modified by beadiste at Tue, Feb 06, 2018, 18:19:23
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Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/06/2018, 19:36:31
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/06/2018, 20:47:14
1980s they used old cane? And then it ran out, now they're pulling new starburst cane that is not spiralled.
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/12/2018, 11:15:59
From paeonia's post back in 2006. http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi?fvp=/openforum/&cmd=iYz&aK=43393&iZz=43393&gV=0&kQz=&aO=1&iWz=0
Related link: http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi?fvp=/openforum/&cmd=iYz&aK=43393&iZz=43393&gV=0&kQz=&aO=1&iWz=0
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/13/2018, 09:00:09
late 1980s, early 1990s.
Modified by beadiste at Tue, Feb 13, 2018, 09:00:22
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Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/06/2018, 21:29:53
Modified by Frederick II at Tue, Feb 06, 2018, 21:51:35
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Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/06/2018, 21:39:07
Here you see squiggles which are not neatly arranged as a rectangular frame around a neatly centered starburst. Nevertheless, it shows greater artistic control than the newer ones.
Modified by Frederick II at Tue, Feb 06, 2018, 21:43:14
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Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/07/2018, 00:33:49
Modified by Frederick II at Wed, Feb 07, 2018, 01:48:28
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Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/07/2018, 08:55:11
I think it's curious that Boshan is placed in quotes—since the primary place of manufacture is at Boshan. Or, a few other centers of bead-manufacture receive their canes from Boshan. The newer beads have canes that have fewer spirals around the center. Nevertheless, these canes do spiral (!) and are different from the Venetian canes that inspired them, that have complete concentric stripe layers. I showed the only "new" Chinese millefiori beads I am aware of, about 10 years ago, that I believe were not made by exploiting old stocks of canes. JDA.
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/10/2018, 18:25:38
The spirals in the beads on offer for about $4 seem to be a single turn of the curve, instead of what I initially thought was an effort to imitate this type of murrine using the Venetian method. Pic shows two examples of the beads showing a single turn vs a bead with multiple turns.
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/15/2018, 12:15:09
Some pics of Mel's from a thread a few years ago demonstrate what seems to be the lack of spiraling - just one thin stripe seems to connect the center cluster with the outer ring. An effort to imitate the spiraled rod from decades prior?
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Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/15/2018, 13:25:40
In these canes, the spiral encircles the red center twice. Admittedly, this is fewer times than we can see in many other canes, where there are more spirals (as I said earlier). I will try to dig-out the photos I took ten years ago, where what I am confident is a new cane was used on then-new beads. The canes are distinctive—and not just because there are "fewer spirals." I continue to believe that the beads you are discussing were made from old stocks of canes. Some produced, perhaps, in the 1980s. Or, possibly there were rediscovered old stocks of beads, sold in the 1980s. (I would have no way to determine which scenario would be more accurate.) I will also try to dig-out my photo of old black beads, with "new" ('80s) black beads—that demonstrates they are identical—except that the old beads have surface wear from use. JDA.
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/07/2018, 10:37:54
Related link: http://www.edithtao.com/b/Boshan-ship-traditional-craft-jade-Bai-Puyun-cheng-old-glass-beads-white-agate-cheng-glass-beads-scattered-beads-20-mm/7026616.html
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Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/07/2018, 18:28:57
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/12/2018, 10:46:16
That is, someone who helps non-Chinese buy from TaoBao (China's version of eBay). They charge a 10% fee. Doubtful they would know anything about the beads.
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Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/12/2018, 20:35:15
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/07/2018, 12:35:47
One type of bead found in four basic colors (Pl. VIF) [round beads less than 1cm, in olive green, yellow, red, turquoise] with a sunburst design was purchased in Huhhot, Inner Mongolia, purportedly with Boshan labels on the shipping crages, according to Sprague's informant. The sunburst design was not seen in the shops of Boshan. Sun Can Geng, engineer at the Beijing Glass Ware Factory, suggested that elaborate sunburts beads show to her in pictures (supplied by Elizabeth Harris) were probably from Hong Kong. Thus, they may have been made in Guangzhou (Canton) or a more-southerly manufacturing center instead of Boshan.[Here I interrupt to opine that they might also have been made in Boshan during the post-Liberation revival of the glass factories, and were simply purchased by Hong Kong buyers and sold there.] These beads were strung on elastic to be used as infant-girl bracelets, a specialty item prepared for sale and, thus, like the buttons in the grasslands, may have a wider distribution than simple strings of beads. At no time did we observe any specific type of decorated beads outside of a specific city area except for one case. In Beijing, a single small string of beads was purchased in an antique shop that included six modern Boshan-like decorated beads strung with several plain beads. The price was vastly inflated at a markup from Boshan of over 200%.
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Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/13/2018, 08:49:47
I believe it is conceded that Boshan-style beads, made from Boshan elements (the millefiori murrine and other rods) were made elsewhere in China. Hong Kong enters the picture because, in the early 1980s, considerable quantities of Boshan millefiori beads were sold from that location, that had been warehoused (in HK) for some years. Presumably from as early as the 1920s or '30s. For a few years these were quite a fad—and I knew people who went to Hong Kong specifically to find and buy those beads. This was something different from what Sprague discussed (which was circumstantial). Soon after his field work at Boshan, Boshan millefiori beads were available for sale—because I bought them from Paddy Kan in 1987. JDA.
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Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/10/2018, 12:21:47
A few Chinese collectors of antique starburst beads have excellent examples which are three times more rich and varied in color than the ones we see in America. In China, these beads have also become three times more expensive than we may rationalize. They are now paying more than we are paying for the finest pieces.
Modified by Frederick II at Sat, Feb 10, 2018, 18:55:47
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/12/2018, 11:03:06
Frederick, this seems to be the source of your information. http://ornamentmagazine.epubxp.com/i/139740-vol36-4-2013/45 The PDF is downloadable for reading offline.
Modified by beadiste at Mon, Feb 12, 2018, 11:03:50
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/12/2018, 11:08:00
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/12/2018, 11:21:20
Related link: http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi?fvp=/openforum/&cmd=iYz&aK=43393&iZz=43393&gV=0&kQz=&aO=1&iWz=0
Modified by beadiste at Mon, Feb 12, 2018, 11:21:32
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Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/12/2018, 22:38:12
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Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/14/2018, 21:12:33
33mm would be humongous for an ojime -nearly twice normal. Unless it is for a "wrestler's inro." While the glass and technique is Chinese, the rendering is nearly Japanese in style…As if there may have been a collaboration.
Modified by Frederick II at Thu, Feb 15, 2018, 00:09:17
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/15/2018, 08:44:03
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Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/15/2018, 16:22:27
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/13/2018, 10:41:57
A touching account of the hazards involved in international trade. https://www.robinatkins.com/adventures.html
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Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/13/2018, 10:58:16
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/13/2018, 12:40:09
The 2013 Ornament article features a picture that first appeared in the earlier 1984 issue when Liu & Kan visited a glass bead factory in China. It shows the flat glass strips that were used to make the Chinese lamp beads. http://ornamentmagazine.epubxp.com/i/139740-vol36-4-2013/45 Pouring flat strips of glass to use in lampworking is a Japanese technique. The Satake glass used by contemporary Japanese lampworkers is produced in flat strips. Jamey's 2004 presentation speculated how the starburst canes were constructed by laying the thin decorative strips at right angles to a larger flat strip, rolling the whole thing up like a jelly roll, and then drawing out the resulting stubby cylinder of glass into a long rod, subsequently cut into murrine. The Japanese how-to book Tonbo-dama by Kogure Norikazu has a chapter on making cherry blossom murrine that very closely resemble the little blossoms on old beads that I recollect are in Billy's collection, as well as the murrine in the old pre-WWII Boshan beads as shown in the 2013 Ornament article. A stubby cylinder of glass is patterned, then pulled. The observations by Sprague, Atkins, and Hector that a popular use for glass beads in China was to make bead curtains and screens, and that plastic beads were taking over this market, might explain why the Boshan bead factory decided not to continue producing old-fashioned lampwork beads once the pre-WWII supply of Japanese-style pulled starburst rods ran out.
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/13/2018, 12:46:16
These greatly resemble the blossoms in the Tonbo-dama how-to book. http://beadcollector.net/cgi-bin/anyboard.cgi?fvp=/openforum/&cmd=get&cG=136363530343&zu=313536303837&v=2&gV=0&p=
Modified by beadiste at Tue, Feb 13, 2018, 12:46:38
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Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/13/2018, 14:55:02
A few Chinese canes that can be interpreted as "floral" were composed from parts, and are therefore composited. However, most conventional (obvious) flower canes were molded in the Venetian style. This is abundantly clear from Chinese paperweights—since they copy (ugly) Venetian paperweights. The "sunburst" canes also copy a Venetian cane, closely related to ritorte (twisted filaments in clear glass), except that the layers are concentric in Venetian canes, and spiraled in Chinese canes. It is my belief (and I accept this could be all in my mind) that these canes are also floral, and represent chrysanthemum flowers (which have a long and significant symbolic history in China). JDA.
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/13/2018, 17:29:48
definitely seem to be based upon the Japanese method of lampworked instead of molded murrine production.
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Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/15/2018, 13:17:45
You would have to have some compelling evidence that ANY Boshan lampwork beadmakers had any typical trailing skills, in the period we are dealing with. I have determined that their skills were very rudimentary. They knew how to add crumbs, drizzle trails, occasionally comb trails—and that's about all, apart from dropping on murrine where they wanted them placed; and the unusual use of equatorially-applied ritorte or filigrana canes. These is no evidence for Venetian-like nor Japanese-like trailing in Chinese beads—even those from Boshan. The Chinese only learned to perform typical trailing strategies about ten years ago. If you can, please show an example of a bead that you think has a trailed design rather than a cane design. JDA.
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Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
02/13/2018, 14:36:51
Modified by Frederick II at Thu, Feb 15, 2018, 03:37:36
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Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/13/2018, 14:59:05
I am having Kwan translated now. Even he has almost nothing to say about modern beads, apart from factory statistics.
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/13/2018, 17:39:30
"Tibet old color glaze Bead Qing Dynasty white twisted silk hyacinth glass bead product good without injury"Asking $211.07 USD.
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/13/2018, 18:01:12
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Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
02/13/2018, 18:03:34
"Zibo Boshan old glaze Chicken eyeball son"Various colors on offer, 40 cents on up
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Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
02/15/2018, 13:39:11
I have nothing to say about the ..., hmmm..., unfortunate name.... The description mentioning "glaze" is a good indication that the seller does not understand the differences between glassworking and ceramics production—as is rampant among people who have not studied glass, but have some knowledge of ceramics.** But we all know that bead descriptions are usually inadequate or mistaken—or just made-up. JDA. ** The first time I EVER saw Chinese millefiori beads (at a shop in San Francisco, Chinatown, toward the late 1970s), I was bowled-over. They were placed two side-by-side at the top of decorative tassels (as for scroll weights, or the like). When I asked what the beads were, the store owner told me they were "ceramic"—which I could tell they were not. I bought several tassels, and hoped to see more of these beads. But it was years, well into the 1980s, that that happened. I was encouraged by the Sprague and Liu/Kan articles. JDA.
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