Post Message Search Overview RegisterLoginAdmin
Necklace of Old-Fashioned Chinese Cloisonne Beads
Post Reply Edit View All Forum
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/05/2017, 12:37:37

Well, "Old-fashioned" meaning possibly from the 1960s-70s, before patterns became standardized to enable mass production.

About 11mm in size ( i.e., comparatively small). The style of the round buds, the details in the flower centers, and the use of tiny droplets as well as clouds indicate an older artisan used to pre-WWII styles of wirework. There are two basic patterns used, and the artist amused himself/herself by varying the colors of enamels in the stems, buds, and flowers.

The clasp is a gold-washed silver filigree, nice although not as carefully made as some. Stamped "silver."

Observations? Thoughts?

[the second picture has a Japanese ojime bead for comparison]

SAM_8069_(2).JPG (186.7 KB)  SAM_8070_(3).JPG (201.7 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
A few more comparison pics
Re: Necklace of Old-Fashioned Chinese Cloisonne Beads -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/05/2017, 12:42:51

A little vase that likewise seems more old-fashioned (i.e., closer to mid-century than the 1980s), and a JingFa-style big 34mm ornament bead.

SAM_8072_(2).JPG (223.8 KB)  SAM_8071_(2).JPG (171.0 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
gilded glasp
Re: A few more comparison pics -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: birdi Post Reply
07/05/2017, 13:41:15

The gilded oval clasps are very commonly seen on 20th century Chinese necklaces. I can often ID a necklace as soon as I see the clasp without even clicking the listing. That said, I hear the clasps were sold separately in some places in the 1970s and 80s, so it's possible you might find European beads with Chinese clasps. I have yet to see one however.

I don't know if there is any actual silver content. Perhaps the others might know.

I like the branch with unopened buds. That's a nice detail on your beads.



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
A Haskell design for those big cloisonne beads
Re: A few more comparison pics -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/06/2017, 09:42:16

Rummaging through my picture files, I found this set, which I apparently saved because I think it's the best simple necklace design yet for one of these beads.

The Chinese version features a decorative knot and a tassel, and sometimes that nice square-knotted decorative cord.

BeadTasselNecklaceA.jpg (28.7 KB)  BeadTasselNecklaceC.jpg (30.6 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
How the patterns are constructed
Re: Necklace of Old-Fashioned Chinese Cloisonne Beads -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/05/2017, 15:10:25

My draftsmanship skills aren't the greatest, but hopefully you get the idea.

The basic idea is a blossom branch, with the various little twig, leaf, flower, and buds motifs applied in one of two different compositions.

I had a hard enough time just following the lines with a pencil, let alone bending hair-thin little wires to create the motifs. Guessing this takes a bit of practice...

By about 1980, the blossom branch was very much simplified into a design just about anyone could follow, and this lasted until the Beijing Enamel Company ran into financial difficulties in the 1990s, quit making the beads because even the standardized abbreviated design was too labor intensive, and had to be re-organized in a bankruptcy around 2000.

SAM_8073_(2).JPG (145.9 KB)  


Modified by beadiste at Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 15:10:45

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: How the patterns are constructed
Re: How the patterns are constructed -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: stefany Post Reply
07/05/2017, 23:33:40

good illustration!
you can create repeat sizes and shapes in wire by bending around a rigid form or "jig" and still vary each slightly... i picture the leaves and flower shapes made that way...



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Just pliers and rods
Re: Re: How the patterns are constructed -- stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/06/2017, 08:43:28

Have yet to find any photo or mention of Chinese wire workers using jigs. They do use paper patterns, and a variety of pliers and graduated rods, as well as copper wires glued together so that 8-12 wires can be bent at the same time.

And sometimes you can observe when a wire worker is relying on a pattern (memorized or paper) instead of basic artistic ability - they can't tell when something's not quite right, and just stick the wires on anyway. I did a blog post about a necklace featuring phoenix beads, and it's apparent that one artist knew what he/she was doing, and the other was just trying.

http://www.beadiste.com/2013/12/puzzling-evidence-fenghuang-or-chinese.html


Related link: http://www.beadiste.com/2013/12/puzzling-evidence-fenghuang-or-chinese.html

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
YouTube video shows process
Re: Re: How the patterns are constructed -- stefany Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/12/2017, 07:54:20

This is a longish video with lots of filler, but if you skip to the 14:00 mark, you can watch a technician bend the band of multiple wires into a flower shape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfJV9nSry7k

CloisonneWireBending.jpg (38.7 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
I appreciate your research and have a question…
Re: Necklace of Old-Fashioned Chinese Cloisonne Beads -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/06/2017, 00:30:52

Hi Chris,

You say: "the second picture has a Japanese ojime bead for comparison."
I don't see a Japanese ojime bead. So, I assume you mean the brown one.

I've never seen an ojime like this one & feel confident it's a Chinese bead.
Have you evidence to support your conclusion that this may be an ojime?



Modified by Frederick II at Thu, Jul 06, 2017, 01:53:19

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Evidence?
Re: I appreciate your research and have a question… -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/06/2017, 08:05:11

Color of brown enamel - have never seen this in any Chinese cloisonne bead

Little kidney-shaped motifs - never seen in any Chinese cloisonne, but can be found in Japanese pieces

Overall composition - have never seen anything as abstract and borderline geometric as this in Chinese cloisonne beads

Trefoil mon appear in Japanese art, of course, but the trefoil motif is not common in Chinese motifs (that little yellow vase is a typical example).

Hole size - very large, ample to accommodate inro cords

Hole rim - Chinese cloisonne beads with rings around the hole are often double, or not as thin and precise and exactly on edge as this one. Likely because in Chinese beads the rim wires are applied on the surface, whereas the metal hole rim in this bead is actually the edge of an interior tube running the length of the bead. Have never seen a Chinese cloisonne bead with this type of construction.

Metal appears a bit oxidized by age, not chemicals.

Ojime1d.jpg (50.4 KB)  


Modified by beadiste at Thu, Jul 06, 2017, 08:06:06

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Evidence?
Re: Evidence? -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jrj Post Reply
07/06/2017, 22:57:41

Perhaps not a perfect parallel, but the relationship of figure and ground seems similar to these; I believe they're yours, Beadiste.



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Re: Evidence?
Re: Re: Evidence? -- jrj Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jrj Post Reply
07/06/2017, 22:58:27



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Re: Evidence?
Re: Re: Evidence? -- jrj Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: jrj Post Reply
07/06/2017, 22:59:29

Sorry, moved my mouse and the previous blank message posted. Now, the image won't post (size is okay) and I don't know why.

Beadiste, I tried to post your Japanese cloisonné beads on a red cord. Can you help by posting them, since I can't seem to?



Modified by jrj at Thu, Jul 06, 2017, 23:03:31

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Yes, they're mine, and I still find them puzzling
Re: Re: Evidence? -- jrj Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/07/2017, 10:43:16

There are two varieties, one with brown background enamel, the other in black. The patterns repeat, as if someone sat down to make a couple dozen beads one day and repeated the designs to minimize brain effort. But why? For whom? To use for what? When?

Is this a belt, or some sort of cincture? Why bother to knot between the beads if they were just strung to keep them together before use in something else? Red silk inro cord isn't cheap. [next question? Silk, nylon, or polyester? I've not yet checked. Guess it's time to get out the stainless spoon and a lighter and roast a few threads....]

Fredric Schneider, in his book The Art of Japanese Cloisonne Enamel, mentions this:

An early twentieth century Ando Japanese-language flyer, circa 1904, advertised rings, bracelets, hairpins, hair ornaments, combs, hatpins, cuff links, buttons, buckles, pins, and beads, made to the customer's design, so there must have been demand in the domestic market and/or from retailers for resale to foreigners, although few such pieces marked Ando survive."

And a footnote has this interesting tidbit:

"Ando advertising flier circa 1904, private collection, Kyoto. In 1895, Ando planned to exhibit enameled rings, ojime, match cases, obidome, watch and other chains and pins, but ultimately did not show them. Ogawa, Meiji-ki, 14.



Modified by beadiste at Fri, Jul 07, 2017, 10:48:26

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
A pic comparing the ojime and the beads
Re: Re: Evidence? -- jrj Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/07/2017, 11:08:47

Not easy to see, but the little flattened petal motifs are done Japanese style, seeming based upon the notched petal of a cherry blossom.

SAM_8074_(2).JPG (193.7 KB)  CoveredJar.jpg (136.1 KB)  


Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Seems Consistent with "Kyoto Style" Japanese Cloisonne
Re: I appreciate your research and have a question… -- Frederick II Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/06/2017, 08:35:14

If you do a Google Images search for the terms "Kyoto Jippo," numerous examples can be viewed.

Here's a Totai Jippo (cloisonne on porcelain) box showing the kidney and petal motifs, and a Kyoto Style saucer (note the little trefoil mon motifs)

circa 1900-1920s? In my picture files is a Kyoto style coffee pot with an inscription dating it to 1903.

TotaiJippoBoxB.jpg (157.8 KB)  KyotoStyleCupSaucerA.jpg (177.7 KB)  


Modified by beadiste at Thu, Jul 06, 2017, 08:36:07

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Altho Nagoya was the home of the cloisonne over porcelain piece pictured
Re: Seems Consistent with "Kyoto Style" Japanese Cloisonne -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/07/2017, 11:12:13

So maybe it's just more appropriate to note that the motifs seem consistent with c1900 Japanese cloisonne, give or take twenty years either way.



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: Necklace of Old-Fashioned Chinese Cloisonne Beads
Re: Necklace of Old-Fashioned Chinese Cloisonne Beads -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Frederick II Post Reply
07/06/2017, 10:41:13

Dear Chris,

There are reoccurring examples which suggest collaboration between Chinese craftspersons and Japanese ojime makers. -More often in glass. Perhaps this is one of those collaborations but in Cloisonne this time.

The quality of the aperture is sufficient evidence that this bead may have been intended for usage as an ojime. But it still feels Chinese made to me. I have had Chinese beads with brown enamel. And, the materials and craftsmanship differs from typical Japanese ojime.

I feel that taking a closer look is worthwhile. And you are doing this. You seem to be getting somewhere. And I encourage you to continue.

The closer I look at this bead the more I'm convinced it is Chinese. I am too busy to go into detail at the moment. Perhaps tomorrow I will get back to this.



Modified by Frederick II at Thu, Jul 06, 2017, 12:13:07

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Does somebody know the period of these cloisonne?
Re: Necklace of Old-Fashioned Chinese Cloisonne Beads -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
07/07/2017, 13:38:15

DSC08410.jpg (184.9 KB)  DSC08409.jpg (187.2 KB)  
kika

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
1970s-80s is my estimate
Re: Does somebody know the period of these cloisonne? -- kika Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: beadiste Post Reply
07/07/2017, 15:36:35



Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users
Re: 1970s-80s is my estimate: thanks!
Re: 1970s-80s is my estimate -- beadiste Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: kika Post Reply
07/09/2017, 06:25:07

kika

Copyright 2024
All rights reserved by Bead Collector Network and its users


Forum     Back