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Amber? Phenolic Resin?
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Posted by: njstark Post Reply
07/07/2006, 17:05:06

Being a snoop at heart, I did three of the tests described described in a previous posting on the two strands shown below. Here are the results:

1) When cut with a knife, amber/copal will crumble while phenolic resin will slice. The first strand crumbles, the second strand slices.

2) When exposed to acetone, amber/copal will dissolve while phenolic resin is resistant. The first strand became tacky and stuck to my finger, the second strand merely became clean.

3) When exposed to a flame, amber/copal will smell like incense while phenolic resin will stink like burning carbon. The first strand charred while the second strand did nothing.

Clearly the second strand is a superior material. Can you guess where I bought the first strand? Nancy

Danish_Amber_1_for_Web.jpg (54.0 KB)  Copal_for_Web.jpg (44.7 KB)  


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Re: Amber? Phenolic Resin? -Copal?
Re: Amber? Phenolic Resin? -- njstark Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: michael Post Reply
07/07/2006, 21:50:49

Chances are good that if these beads became soft or sticky in acetone,
they are Copal and not Amber. Amber will not, at least not any I have ever seen. As far as the second strand being superior
material, you mean superior resistance to solvents? Some might say Cubic Zirconia is superior to Diamonds also.

Regards, Michael



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Superior?
Re: Re: Amber? Phenolic Resin? -Copal? -- michael Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: njstark Post Reply
07/08/2006, 04:59:26

Yes, Michael, I meant "superior" with tongue in cheek. A material scientist would choose phenolic resin over copol or amber any day; a bead collector would do the opposite.

As always, beauty and functionality and value are in the eye of the beholder.

Yes, I understand your comment about amber and copal having different solubility properties. I can't speak to it yet, I havent' tried the tests on enough known materials to really tell. I have only the following two additional pieces of suspected "real" amber, which I bought at the Museum of Helsinki in Denmark, and I don't want to damage the cabachons.

BTW, the previous copol/amber strand was purchased in Copenhagen. Is it likely that copal would be shipped there? Nancy

Amber_Helsinki_1_for_Web.jpg (46.9 KB)  Amber_Helsinki_3_for_Web.jpg (49.9 KB)  


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Re: Superior?
Re: Superior? -- njstark Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: michael Post Reply
07/08/2006, 13:30:56

Hello Nancy.
It would seem unlikely that Amber beads purchased in Denmark would be Copal. If you rub these beads against a cloth like Denim to create friction and warmth, if it is Baltic Amber the pine type scent it gives off is pretty unmistakable. Even the African and South American Copal I have seen does not smell this way.
A few years ago on a vacation trip to the Dominican Republic, I attempted to purchase some raw Dominican Amber. I was told that Dominican amber could no longer legaly be exported unless it was made into beads, jewelry or at least polished localy. When I asked why, I was told by more than one person that during the first half of the 20th Century, huge quantities of Dominican amber were exported to Europe to be made into jewelry and sold as Baltic Amber. To keep the Amber revenues in the Dominican Republic I was told a law was passed. The people I talked to said at that time it was cheaper to Import this Dominican Amber than to use Baltic Amber.(it does nt sound logical, but that is what was said) Two of the countries specificaly mentioned to me were Denmark and Germany.
At the risk of being off the topic of beads, I would like to mention one more thing. Dominican Amber when rubbed to create a scent, smells nothing like Baltic Amber. It smells(to me)more like man made plastic, and even when burned could be mistaken for such. So some Amber beads represented to be Baltic Amber could in fact be Dominican amber and even thought to be plastic. (but still wont dissolve in acetone) just a little more confusion to add to an already confusing subject. I do hope this was helpful to you.

Michael



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Aromas VS Odors
Re: Re: Superior? -- michael Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: Beadman Post Reply
07/08/2006, 15:46:16

Dear Michael,

Your remarks demonstrate that aroma/odor can be very subjective.

All true ambers (when rubbed or burnt) smell much more alike than different; and all smell different from plastics. You may think a particular smell "is more like plastic," but that is a very misleading thing to write, in terms of advising others.

In the thirty-something years I have been dealing with amber, I have yet to meet anyone who could characterize one smell and compare it to another in a meaningful way. This happens because we have a limited vocabulary to accomodate thousands or millions of distinct aromas. Added to that, the primary plastics used to imitate amber (Celluloid, Acrylic, something else that's thermolibile (I haven't identified yet), and phenolic plastics EACH have distinct odors, and yet all are "plasticy." Celluloid, Acrylic, and the third one each have slightly resinous smells—and yet they remain distinct from the aroma of natural resins. The smell of burning phenolic plastic has the smell of carbolic acid (NOT "carbon" as stated elsewhere), and is possibly the most chemical and unpleasant aroma of any amber imitations

Jamey.



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A GREAT related article......
Re: Amber? Phenolic Resin? -- njstark Post Reply Edit Forum Where am I?
Posted by: TASART Post Reply
07/08/2006, 09:28:02

"THE BEAD JOURNAL" Vol.3, No.1, 1976.....
Article title: Amber and its substitutes Pt. III: Is it real? Testing amber......A very comprehensive 12 page article including photos....................................................................................................by: Jamey Allen



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