A necklace of small shell discs was assembled over years and represented countless revolutions of that persons 'Mani' wheel.

A 'Mani' is what we call a prayer wheel. The ubiquitous Vajrayana Buddhist utensil found all over Tibet. The unique concept is a curious combination of 'shamanism' in concert with Buddhist dogma. The mani is a portable prayer mill filled with thousands of mantra printed on a long strip of paper and wound into a tight spool held inside a cylindrical container. The familiar mantra of Avalokiteshvara, 'Om Mani Padme Hum' is distributed as the wheel is turned sending out a blessing and positive wish for all beings.

When the Mani wheel was rotated clockwise the idea is that the mantras inside are launched into the universe as a wish for the benefit of mankind. Much like the use of Buddhist 108 bead malla but amplified by the addition of thousands of prayers.

What a terrific concept!

A necklace of small shell discs was assembled over years and represented countless revolutions of that persons 'Mani' wheel.

A 'Mani' is what we call a prayer wheel. The ubiquitous Vajrayana Buddhist utensil found all over Tibet. The unique concept is a curious combination of 'shamanism' in concert with Buddhist dogma. The mani is a portable prayer mill filled with thousands of mantra printed on a long strip of paper and wound into a tight spool held inside a cylindrical container. The familiar mantra of Avalokiteshvara, 'Om Mani Padme Hum' is distributed as the wheel is turned sending out a blessing and positive wish for all beings.

When the Mani wheel was rotated clockwise the idea is that the mantras inside are launched into the universe as a wish for the benefit of mankind. Much like the use of Buddhist 108 bead malla but amplified by the addition of thousands of prayers.

What a terrific concept!

I screwed up - lets try it again? ===

Over a few years I managed to collect a couple examples of these curious assemblages. Dun has a magical symbolism as one of the eight auspicious symbols of Vajarayana Buddhism, the Dun-Kar or ritual trumpet made from the Indian Chank Shell.

What originally piqued my curiosity was the way the discs were formed. They had uneven edges that would be hard to fabricate? Different from the necklaces of conch shell beads I had usually seen before. I began to understand how each disc functioned as a bearing upon which the cylinder of a Mani rotated and that after thousands of revolutions it was eventually worn though leaving one small disc that could be added to the string.

As you can see this would represent countless revolutions turning a mani to produce each disc. Additionally each disc represented the energy invested with countless mantras launched into the ether. No wonder they were highly personal and treasured objects!

I would never think of approaching a person to buy one of these but on the rare occasion when I did see a trader with one I tried to get it. Although they are not particularly 'old' in the sense most of the objects I collect are, they are imbued with energy by the very way they were created and are valued highly because of it.

Obviously the creators of these Mani Dun necklaces do not share the same 'taste' we fussy collectors do. The terminal 'Guru' bead on the two larger examples and the 'coral' beads are all plastic simulations. Ivory or coral would be prohibitively expensive and beyond the means of most Tibetans now. Like everywhere the average person does not have the sophistication nor the means to possess antique beads. I would venture most Tibetans do not put the negative spin on them we do and if the color fits - that's good enough for most folks.

This is a detail showing the irregular edges produced by the revolutions of the mani against the shell. They are not finished the way they would be if they were manufactured as disc beads.

It is difficult to describe but there is usually a small segment of bamboo or wood inserted in the bottom of the cylinder of the Mani that wears a groove into the shell at the bearing point eventually producing a disc bead as it is worn out and then replaced by a new piece of shell.

Do you get my point? Do I get my point???

This closeup shows the way the Dun bearings support the the cylinder of the Mani wheel.

Notice the bamboo tube functioning as the top bearing and counterweights that help keep the cylinder rotating.

Often a disc was made to fit the Mani wheel but sometimes a larger piece of shell was used and like the example on the left was rotated seven times before it was used up.

This is a deconstructed Mani wheel to illustrate how it fits together with the roll of printed mantra (Tibetan prayers) inside. Notice the Dun lozenge with what eventually will become another disc bead.

I took this photo behind Chagpuri hill in Lhasa last summer.

Here you can clearly see that Tibetans revered this symbolic substance and have left offerings of their 'used' Mani Dun discs at this shrine.

thank you. Maybe if we could popularize this activity here in the U.S. we would accelerate whorled peas...

On a serious note, I appreciate every morsel of your experiences in Tibet that you share with us.

I know that you are planning details of your 2006 trip by now. Is departure in about a month, or might we be neighbors at the flea market May 1 after all? That is, if it does not get rained out!

Never stop posting offerings such as this one!
Would you eventually enlighten us on the specific ways ancients used Bhaisajya Guru beads--if any? (Your ignorant chela -- a lover of such beads -- is unable to find literature on that particular subject).

Tashi Delek!!

I picked this Conch/Dun/Chank mala up several years ago and it a monster. The conch beads are approx. 17 mm diameter and the immitation amber bead which is made from plastic measures nearly 40mm. It is very heavy.

I wonder if the malas that you have are actually from prayer wheel activity? Or have they been created using other means. I know that a prayer wheel can normally take a year or so (sometimes many years) of daily use to wear down a conch. Based on this it would take over one hundred years for one person to build a complete mala. So do you think that many prayer wheel users have contributed to these malas?

From what I have witnessed most old time Tibetans that use prayer wheels will usually wear there worn down conch discs around their necks. And this usually makes up no more than a dozen pieces. They believe that these discs are imbued with the blessings of their mantra recitations. So I would be surprised if these dics are sold since they would be a very personal and sacred object. What do you think? Do you think it is then possible that your malas are made up of discs that have been offered in sacred sites and have then been taken. I have no idea myself but it is something to consdider.

Have a wonderful trip to Tibet : ) Any room in your suitcase?

'A dozen pieces' - So if you are suggesting this handsome fellow spent his lifetime producing a dozen beads I am suggesting he spent a great deal of time drinking chang at the same time.

You sure ask a lot of questions?

What makes you doubt the discs are from a Mani? Do you see beads ground into shapes like these produced as commercial beads? I don't.

I am no expert so can't answer your questions with authority. I only have my own experience. Conch shell is not jade. It does wear relatively quickly depending on the amount of use though. I think your estimate is based on conjecture. Perhaps more than one Mani contributes to a malla - but I don't see why it has too? Do you??

From what I have witnessed most old time Tibetans that use prayer wheels have no formula written down for exactly how this has to be. Sometimes they are small - sometimes they are large. Tibetans seem to manage it their own way and don't question everything like we do.

Sure they are personal and sacred objects. So are gau', malla, thogchag, purba, etc, etc, still they seem to be available?

How about your dzi beads James??? Are they not powerful personal amulets but still - there they are on E-Bay???

Circumstances influence the value and movement of goods everywhere. Tibetans are consummate capitalists and a very practical people. Sell a funky old object to a tourist and go buy a brand shiny new one made in Kathmandu! Tourists are so naive??? In Tibet it will become old quickly anyway....... sometimes instantly just like E-Bay!

People in Tibet are just like people everywhere - they can't take it with them em'there either? Otherwise nothing would be left to sell would it??

Do I think these were ripped off from a sacred site? No, James I don't. There are none of these disc beads in the photo I posted if you look closely. Do you think the old beads on your web site were ripped off from a sacred site?

A few old 'conch' beads collected in Tibet.

Hi Bob,

It appears that you have misread or read too much into my last post. I am sorry for this and did not mean any harm or ill will. I actually loved your post and was just trying to engage you a little more. Since we both travel in the Himalayas I thought it would be good to exchange some ideas on this. It WASN'T a personal attack on your beads or your integrity.I come here to LEARN which is why I ask questions. I have read my post several times and I can't see any harm in what I have said. You sure do have experience and my questions were directed at you to gain more understanding on your post. I did not make any allegations I simply asked if there were other possibilities. When sourcing beads in Tibet or Nepal it is difficult to know exactly where beads were sourced. Since they can pass through the hands of many dealers and traders. I am just trying to be open minded about these things. Your post was wonderful and please keep them coming. I promise I'll ask no more questions : )

Namaste,

James

Sorry James - I did think their was some veiled message in all those questions.

I was defensive.... I don't post about beads much because I do expect to be grilled about whatever I post. However I did not expect it to come from you! I know you know what I mean.

Again Sorry! Questions are OK - as you see I have a lot of questions myself!

I am not a dharma bum - just a agnostic bum...... hence my reluctance to post to much about religion.

In the New Age even G_d is a he/she??? Very confusing???

Still there is no denying the energy from such power objects whether it comes from our own projections or the greater universe? G_d only nose???

I identify more with Homer the Simpson than Homer the philosopher so many times my ironic humor produces more confusion than laughter.

I'll try to do better....

Good Luck everybody!!!

James I owe you a public apology for raking you over the coals today.....

Sorry - I am still learning?

say I'm sorry, has to be a very nice person!! Thank you for the great post and thanks for the great spirit that you show!!!

hope the following quote from Situ Rinpoche's book 'Ground Path and Fruition' will be of help.

‘Some very old people complete 5, 6, 7, 8 or 10 hundred million recitations of
Om Mani Peme Hung. We call a hundred thousand recitations a ‘tung’. This literally means a conch shell. They also use prayer wheels. Prayer wheels are spun clockwise, a conch shell is used underneath the prayers in the wheel and there is bamboo between the two. Eventually the conch shell breaks the bamboo and that is supposed to equal one hundred million Om Mani Peme Hung recitations. I know people who can complete a conch shell in a week in this way. Normally it takes six months, but if you are a really good practitioner and use it all the time you can do it in a week. Of course they are not using iron, they are using bamboo. If they were to use iron they would finish a conch shell in two hours, but not with bamboo. Some of these people then collect the finished conch shells to use as a mala. Malas like these show they have finished all these conch shells.’

Sorry but it is I who is the chela.....

I cannot even pronounce it let alone tell you about them!

Yes they are irresistible. Below are some I have stashed away you might like to see? Ivory, Chank, Coral & Carnelian and a green hardstone.

You have always been most gracious with your compliments Nishedha.

Thanks! Could you teach me???

Dear chela: The beads you just offered me are wonderful indeed. I have just a couple of these ivory ones that I treasure (see one of them, alas! without her smaller companion, in attached pic).

BUT* in my post I was actually referring to the kind of beads I see usually called "Bhaisajyaguru beads" -- otherwise "suleiman" or "banded agate" beads!

*and I publicy beg your pardon for my poor wording.

See attached pic of a necklace made of the kind of beads I was referring to. These were posted here by Carole Morris sometime ago: beads with a pedigree!!!

...and these beauties belong(ed?) to our dear James.

These were posted here sometime ago by Wendy Sin: I look so sexy when unceremoniously scattered like that!

These were posted here sometime ago by Wendy Sin: I look so sexy when unceremoniously scattered like that!

Ecuse me again: In my previous post, when you read "I look..." you should read "They look..." (I AM not sexy when scattered that way, THEY ARE!)

Nice black talisman (my own), isn't it?

Instead of a puppy we got a wonderful assembly of pictures, opinions and information.

thank you!