Hi Andrea,
For me, these are authentic ancient etched carnelian, at least from the images you provide. Without handling and viewing through a loupe, also...

You have a point. I noticed the rather uneven lines, but also reminded myself that these images seem to be very enlarged. The surface wear seems convincing......if these are repros, the quality of repros has improved quite a lot, which is possible!

Would appreciate more opinions!

this is the listing.

390901089880

lots of photos, so you can have a better look.

The seller states....."if you are interested in other Chinese antiques...."
Sorry to offend anyone, but we must be mindful of fake antiquities markets...they look quite good, but the price tells me more...buyer beware....

Hei guy,

what kind of expert are you? You must to check the photos and you must not look at my words about my Chinese antiques store. Never seen such kind of analysis...

For your known, I'm and honest Italian professional seller, and I never sell fake stuff for to cheat people. I've asked many opinions, and for all these beads look like good ones, for that I've listed on eBay. I will list other carnelian beads today from the same provenience, so you can check also these and get your idea

You can check my stuff in the store or read my feedback, and you see I'm a serious seller who NOT SELL FAKE STUFF. You should be many sure of what you say, before to suggest the people to not to buy my items

Regards

Dr. Andrea Ciaccheri

Please tell us about these.

Early in the year I was buying what looked like very nice natural beads from a seller in Guangzhou China.I bought one at first to make sure I would get something in the mail, after this bead arrived I ended up buying about twenty more beads from this seller.

My main reason for buying the beads was for re-cutting, all of the hard work was already the hole drilled and the bead rough shaped. When I picked a few out for re-cutting I found out as soon as I started to re-grind that something had been done to the stone to change its appearance. Some of the beads had a wonderful Suleiman look that I just wanted to bring out a bit, nearly all of the dark outer coating came off in the early grinding. I did not pay very much for the beads so I have no complaints, I am just pointing out that the Chinese are very good at making something look like what it is not.

I think if the beads in this ebay post were ground down just a bit you might just find that they had been treated in some way to make them look the way they do.

Because I purchased these beads months ago I could only get a very small image of one purchased off of Ebay. I have attached it and tomorrow I will see if I cant find a few before and after images of these beads. I think you will be enlightened.

All my best ......... Danny

Tofsla,
When I cut the first of these beads I did take before and after close ups of each bead as it was cut. Unfortunately I decided that I really did not need these images and deleted them from my camera.

I did have some images on my phone so you can get an idea of the results from as purchased to my finished beads. I did post six of these beads some months ago on the forum but am too lazy to go find the link but I did find the finished bead image I posted.

The first image below is of the beads as purchased and the second is of six that were re-cut. You can tell in the re-cut beads that with out a doubt the surface of the original beads had in fact been treated in some way.

I have to agree with Joyce that it would be nice if you got involved once again in this wonderful forum, those here that are serious need input from all the other serious people so we can all expand our knowledge.

All my best .......... Danny

I do love the first pics, love that finish. But OMG in your second pic, what a difference! I'd use the originals, if they were priced accordingly for what they are, but.....

Danny, how durable was the original finish? Did it take some effort to grind off? Or do you think it would have scratched easily from normal wear and tear?

Luann,
The finish on the original beads was there to stay I would say. I really liked the beads as made for looks but the work done on them left a lot to be desired. I re-drilled the hole larger and straight to begin with then I balanced the bead around the hole.

My lesson learned, if I want the best look from an agate I need to work the bead from rough stone to finish.

If you search Ebay for this seller you will find beads like those I posted. This seller is trustworthy in regards to getting things to you.

mm888home

All my best ........ Danny

....except copies of "Home Alone" DVDs. :^)
Help?

and all your late 19 century Tibetan statue are from Chinese factory and AND BEEN YESTERDAY MADE. check this item 261552335848 .

YOU ARE USING WONDERFUL FORUM AND GREAT PEOPLE LIKE JOICE TO YOUR OWN $$$ GAINS!

Now here arrive the bronze expert. I smile reading you

Please take a good look at the site Asian Art Forum, you will find many my bronzes with the replay where there is the same dating I give in auction. Please to speak with Mr. Michael Staley - USA - mcsnotts@hotmail.com - my expert over Hindu bronze, you have to learn very much from him. If you like, I'm also ready to bet with you the amount you want over the bronze you want. We will ask 3 expertize; do you agree???

People like you who declare fake item of other person, without any minimum competence, are not useful for me. Like you do not write

Dear Dr. Andrea Ciaccheri:

In my humble opinion -without the advantage of seeing them in person-
some appear to be old glass copies of antique Burmese carnelian beads.
They are a mixed bunch & neither typical, classic, nor excellent examples.

While you are not intending to misrepresent them...
the problem is that you are trying to sell these beads;
and the descriptions and prices seem to imply too much.

Initially, you asked for opinions whether these are antique or modern.
But are you open to the opinions of advanced bead collectors?

As I understand it, this forum is for the study of beads
& I feel that we benefit by learning from disagreement.

Belle journe,
Frederick

Hi,

I'm a seller of Chinese antiques and it is very hard work today due the fakes. I can not know everything (it is comprehensible) so when I find items I don't know I ask to experts, I also I'm ready to pay for competent expertize. I've many people help me in many fields, but I'm really at the beginning with the beads.

I've listed these beads as genuine and antique only AFTER Mr. Joyce told me on the forum these are genuine and authentic without need to handle or enlarge... so, I corrected the auction and I said they are genuine. Only you, now, and only Mr. Bompo told me about some doubt, other advanced collectors (do you know Mr. Jamey - USA) say to me these are good ancient beads.

Again, please, because I do not want to cheat no one, tell me know if these beads are antique or modern fakes (it was my first question here in the site, before to list these). If fake I will close the auction. I've listed other beads from the same necklace for to give more details (ebay nn. 390903752111 & 390903818743), with good photos, please let me know.

Regards

Andrea

Hi Andrea,
Both Fred and Jamey are experts whom we all learn from. I recommend that you continue to research and speak with people, and just be as upfront as possible in your listings. There are a number of types of beads that are very difficult to tell if newer reproductions or originals. I've collected etched carnelian for years, and I would have thought these were genuine, but I know I could be wrong. Please do not take offense at how people respond on this site. No one means to be confrontational or critical, and sometimes we all just come off differently than we intended. We are all here to help each other and teach each other as well as question, so you are doing the right thing! :) Good luck to you, and regardless if the beads are or are not originals, they are lovely! Lynne

while there are some people who love beads - there are people who use forum to sell junk and fakes, and I find it unacceptable...

Best
Tofsla

sometimes we get used to see if certain items are "good enough" to pass muster with collectors. It is unfortunate. Sometimes it is very hard to tell without the item in hand, using a loupe.

PLEASE do not leave the forum!!! We need you.

I'm not using Mr Joice or others. I'm not using a wonderful site for my profit and my gain. If someone would know me no one would say so. My only goal is understand if these carnelian beads are genuine or not. But the answer (a serious answer) seems not arrive here.

With ebay and with the forum I've showed to you almost 50 beads of the same provenience. I've enlarge the photo with about 20X. No one is able to declare only one beads if fake. At today most of the person told me these are good ones, I've known only about 3 doubts.

Who say are made in glass. I've tested a bead with my gem refractometer I utilize for jade and it is not glass, is agate. The other doubts are about the uneven white lines and the large holes. I reflect. If these beads are not genuine are a very high quality of fake, where all the chips are really with wear and dirty. Very well worked fakes. Why doing so good quality of fake, the faker would have chose to do bad line or inappropriate hole - they are too evident. I sorry it doesn't go, also this doubt fall down.

I repeat I've showed you over 50 beads with very good photos. In my opinion if there is not an expert able to declare these fake is because they are genuine.

I please all you to don't speak bad about me again, above all if you are not able to judge as fake my stuff. It is very offensive for an honest seller who spend very much time and money for try to list only genuine stuff.

Andrea,
you just stated
If these beads are not genuine are a very high quality of fake, where all the chips are really with wear and dirty. Very well worked fakes. Why doing so good quality of fake, the faker would have chose to do bad line or inappropriate hole - they are too evident. I sorry it doesn't go, also this doubt fall down.

The main reason for someone to make fakes that look real is exactly what we are talking about here. If you fake a bead and beat it up a bit make it dirty so that people think perhaps this is a real ancient bead then that person can take a three to five dollar bead and price it very high. I see this all of the time from sellers all over the world more so in Asia but not limited to that area.

When I am reading your posts and your use of the English language, I am inclined to think that you are Chinese. If this is the case what better thing for you to do to sell your fakes than get some (experts)saying they feel what you have is indeed authentic.

Not one of the people on this forum can give an honest answer regarding your beads or any other beads from an image, the best they can do is make an opinion from photographs.

I am 99.9% sure your listing 390902967911 is indeed not what you say it is. I can go on ebay and find this type bead in quantity out of Thailand any day for very cheap. As Mr. Joyce says buyer beware!!

All my best ......... Danny

Hi,

this is my document. I look like Chinese???

My Eanglish is the English who most of the Italian people speak here, probably not much correct and elegant, but it is very clear.

Now what is the problem on my item n. 390902967911 ???

I bought it from an old lady who bought it in Nepal 40 years ago. In the hands the beads look with good patina and above all the thread looks to me very old (sorry, but the photo does younger it). I've listed this necklace as early 20th century. In my opinion I'm sure it is over 50 years old; highly probable early 20th century; possible some beads is older. Surely 100% not modern stuff made for to cheat people or for to dress. I price my items high because I sell genuine and antique or old stuff, hard to find at today and still collectionable, and not modern reproductions which exist in thousand of copies. So, please, what is my guilt, or lacking of seriousness here?

You say: - Not one of the people on this forum can give an honest answer regarding your beads. - Please make me a very big favor. Please let me know if exist a professional company or expert where I can pay and send my beads to receive competence assistance or certification of them. I would be very very happy to go there to do my question

I guess the Forum would improve if ANY references to eBay were forbidden on it.
Now (never say never) look how fantastic, a World's Première: a Buddhist Krishna!

Surprised how quickly this thread turned quite personal, replies in all caps and quite a few assumptions here and there. Does not really feel like BCN-style to me.......

Perhaps we should let this one rest, is what I think.

THANKYOU Floor, I also think the conversation is worn out. Paul

Agree with Floor and Paul!

Hello Andrea

You are cool guy.(not only in the photo)
And I know you are not the man who is trying to sell fakes as antique.
I'm an antique dealer also.
So I understand your current feeling.

And I believe almost people in this forum already noticed that you are not the man who is trying to sell fakes as antique.

I can't judge your statues because I'm not an expert of them.
(They look good for me in person.)

Anyway I think that your carnelian beads are difficult home work to judge only from pictures.
So I may be wrong.

I feel there are two types of carnelian beads in your pictures.
One type(type A) is beads marked with green line.
Another(type B) is without green line.

Type A looks regular type of ancient etched Carnelian beads to me.
Type B looks irregular type to me.

Type B looks deferent from etched Carnelian beads which I have dealed with as ancient.
So I feel something strange on Type B.
It does not mean Type B is fake, because I don't know everything like you.
But if I were you,I don't buy type B to sell.
Beccause I can expect that many beads people will have same feeling with me.

I will post a picture of anceint Carnelian bead (which many people belive as ancient).
It's different from yours(type B).
Yours(type B) may have been made in diffrent place or different age in ancient age,but they(type B) look different from normal ancient one at least.
I think that is the reason why nobody can judge yours are ancient in this forum.

Please check them carefully with lupe.
Isn't there any difference between type A and type B?
(Of course Type B can be ancient as Jamey judged.)

Anyway Please don't leave this forum.
Your first post was very delicate matter...
But this forum is a great forum in beads world.
I'm sure this forum will help you as far as you deal with beads.

Shinji

Hi Shin Ji,

very thanks. Probably you and Jamey are the unique believe me here. Thanks also for your very interesting points I will study and reflect on them. Here I only update you (Jamey already know) about these beads. Feeling me still not sure with these, yesterday, I contacted the best Italian beads seller. I met him time ago and I bought from him the 8 genuine small dzi I've in my web store. Please to visit his store on eBay and you can understand he is a very big seller of beads (ID. paropamiso.gioielli). Well yesterday I asked him help about my 3 auctions about carnelian agate, I advise him that in the forum people say are modern fakes maybe, to be much careful, and today he replay to me saying everything is good and at good price and he places a bid on my first auction. What have I to think??? I really hope he won these and I really want to know his opinion after received

Regards

Andrea

Hi

Jamey is speciall, I'm normall.There's big difference.
And there are some more specials in this forum.

I know the seller in ebay.
I also want to know his opinion.
If he get them,let us know his opinion here.

By the way where did you get your carnelian beads?
In China?

Shinji (Japanese)

Hi,

I'm new here, for me you all are at the same. I'm learning to know them through the replays...

I got a long necklace of all striped carnelian beads from an Italian seller of Milan. Are about 70-90 beads, still not counted, most very small. I can get this necklace for Euro 350.

This seller is strange for me. He is a Doctor who sell beads and antiques during the weekend only for passion. Very many people appraise him and buy from him, and he has many items from auctions. He doesn't look like a doctor, but is very prepared speaking with him. He collect Mediterranean area items and he confess to me to don't know the Asiatic art even if he sells also this. I bought from him, time ago, a Warring States eyed glass beads necklace (Euro 400) and a Zhou dynasty jade (350 Euro). But they were both modern fakes. We discussed much, he asked excuse and he offered money back, but I didn't take them. Now he gives me this necklace as part of compensation and say to me this is ancient of 3rd century made with natron, he price it Euro 350, if I want... I've to decide before mid September

This is the true, I think he is honest but maybe mix the things with others. He know I will detect the fakes and I will give back it if so. Better if some expert can say his opinion

I understand.

Andrea, I have to tell you , You made one big mistake here.

Joyce is not "He" but "She".

Shinji

Hi,

if Mr. Joyce is a lady, probably I've been too much hard with her, and I would have preferred my words hit a bad boy. I ask excuse to her for the bad manner I've replayed.

In my favor I say, if Joyce is a lady, Andrea is a male, and males fight, if attached. But here we go very far from the beads and my big problem with them. Thanks

Andrea

I hear Italian guys are very gentle for lady.

But Don't worry.
"Mr.Joyce" is an attractive and tolerance lady.

Shinji

Lake Como and Bergamo area is where my maternal grandparents were from.....

Andrea, I also thought you were a Chinese girl, until I found you on Italian "LinkedIn".

Hi, Joyce, excuse again, I will make me forgive.

Is not easy to find me, I've never used Facebook, Twitter, or other, I already spend too much time to the PC with eBay.

Best regards

Andrea

Hi Joyce,

I'm Andrea from Italy. Today I've gotten back the etched carnelian beads from the Italian expert. He says the beads with 4 & 2 stripes are fakes and the beads with single stripe are genuine. Jamey has seen few of these beads from real and he agree also.

I would like to send to you 3 of these beads (4+2+1+stripe) as gift. Please let me know your address or an address where I can send these to you

Best regards

Andrea (bazaar73@alice.it - aylandxxx@infinito.it)

Hi,

for how the things goes, for prudence, for seriousness, for fear also, I can not buy old Chinese Stuff from China. For the same reason I never buy from South Asia the ancient stuff. Too dangerous; needs a preparation I've not, it is not for me. I buy from China items which I can sell here as Chinese art, independently from the age, items like carved glass snuff bottle, modern jade pendant, rare wood carved, and so

However, ascertained I'm not Chinese, I have to say I know many Chinese person and I've many Chinese friends. Not all Chinese are ready to cheat or to make fakes. Most of them are the victims of Chinese fakers like us.

Andrea,
This is not the first time I have made a fool of myself but I hope it is the last, probably not.
I owe you an apology for my comments in an earlier post in this thread. I need to remember to be more trusting in my fellow man and this was an excellent lesson for me.
I had no business commenting on your beads and pretty much any of the old beads that are posted on BCN. I am a collector and not an expert on any beads other than the beads that I personally make.
Please accept my apologies and please continue to be a part of this wonderful forum. It is by far the best resource for information regarding beads on the internet. There are many people that are indeed expert in their own field of beads and more than a few that are overall bead experts.

My best regards ............ Danny