yeah... so am I...

Jamey (Beadman) Allen is the moderator of these Yahoo Groups if you want to access him I'm sure he will welcome you:

tradebeads · TRADE BEAD TALK - Jamey D. Allen, Moderator

beadcollectors · BEAD COLLECTOR'S CORNER - Jamey D. Allen, Moderator

zibeads · TIBETAN ZI BEADS - Jamey D. Allen, Moderator

amberisforever · AMBER FOREVER - Moderated by Jamey D. Allen

Hello WenP,

The filler beads appear to be saturated translucent red (not the brown color I identify as "root beer"). Noting their identical sizes and shapes, I would guess these—like the molded white beads—are plain molded, probably Czech, glass beads. Of course, if they are not glass, they might be imitation "cherry amber." Have you tried rubbing them to see if they produce the smell of carbolic acid—indicating a phenolic resin?

Jamey

Hi Barbara,

The vast majority of garnet beads are small, because garnets large enough to make beads of this size are unusual. The color of garnets is a more purple-red. Plus, beads made from garnets typically have a high-gloss slightly metallic sheen on their surfaces. Larger garnet beads are more often dark-colored (nearly "black-looking"), and may have inclusions that are not attractive. A strand of them would not present a uniform appearance.

The consistent color, uniformity of shape and size, all suggest molded glass.

However, the Chinese did make strands of spheroidal and oblate (and less-common oval/ellipsoidal) beads from red phenolic plastics in the 1930s. These are routinely sold as 'derived from Mandarin Court necklaces,' though such an origin is very unlikely (if not impossible). I think there were similar-looking red glass beads, that might have been thought of as imitations of "cherry amber, found in Mandarin Court necklaces. Thus the confusion, or false belief.

Some strands of red phenolic plastic beads are consistent (appear uniform in size and shape), while others are somewhat more variable, and look hand-made.

It should be easy to determine if the beads in-question are molded glass or phenolic plastic (or something else).

Jamey

Hello Jim,

Until challenged in the 19th C. by Bohemia/Chechoslovakia, Venice was the dominant glass-beadmaker for the world for nearly 500 years. Exceptions would have to be made in the 17th C. for Dutch beads—though their output may have been considerably smaller than that of Venice.

In the 18th C., the Dutch seem to have made some plain wound beads—including in a dark amber tone of brownish yellow. I could not rule-out Holland. By the same token, I can't rule-out China. I'd have to see the beads in real life (though I expect Chinese beads to have a white or pale mandrel-release compound in their perforations).

It is very difficult to identify plain wound glass beads.

Jamey

Thanks Jamey and Stefany. I know that the beads in the animal necklace are Turkish meerschaum because they came from the James Lankton collection and were bought in Turkey (although marked as antique amber).
Perhaps the others are from Africa and I would be interested in seeing any photos others may have of meerschaum beads from anywhere.

Hi Terry,

Two points of interest:

1) I don't suggest that any of your beads are African meerschaum. I think I would recognize this material/these beads even in a photograph. They are rather distinctive.

2) From the time that the Lankton Collection was turned-over to Bassem Elias, the identification, appraisal, and (largely) pricing were performed by me.

I cannot say I remember this piece. Of course, it's possible you acquired it prior to my involvement—in which case the ID tag would have been written by someone else.

In any event, I am reasonably certain I did not identify meerschaum beads as "amber."

I'd like to see additional (closer) photos, if you want to pursue an identification.

Be well. Jamey

The enormous floral arrangement was created entirely of seed beads, in the style of French beaded flowers.

The amber case has been shown before, but I couldn't resist! It's a most large phenolic strand, residing with examples of genuine amber.

Hi Joyce,

I'm glad you like this case, since I designed and executed it. The beads within the H U G E imitation strand are mostly actual copal. Old copal beads are not seen very often—so this is an impressive strand.

For anyone who hasn't seen the case, the left side, shows a variety of great coral beads. Then, the drawers below also show additional coral and amber beads and simulants.

JDA.

My group and I arrived in Tucson today, and as always, went to the Grant Inn show first. There were still plenty of beads to pour over. Unlike previous years, I spent a lot of time in the back building (behind the registration area), and not so much in the tent. However, I managed to spend about fifteen minutes with Joyce and Bassem, before it was time to move on. I hope I will get to return before we exit on Saturday.

The weather was cooler today, but still pleasant.

I chuckled when I noticed that the "$1.00" booths have now become the "$1.30" booths.

It's difficult to remember to take photos, but I'll try.

The big storm across America is getting a lot of people down. One of our participants is still stuck in NYC. And apparently she won't be flying out tomorrow either. I hope you all stay warm. I'm sorry you are not with us.

Jamey

It was so cold Wednesday night, the water in the hotel fountain froze--and looks like an ice sculpture.

We went to the Holidome first today. I bought four strands of lapis beads (two for a client), and had to use my reserve of cash. Then I found the Polish company that's selling heat-treated Colombian copal as "green amber"—and I intended to buy a necklace, but they too were only accepting cash and checks. So I passed for a second time. It irks me to have to buy this stuff as "Caribbean amber"—but if I don't I won't have a specimen to use in any educational context. The necklace I attempted to buy was $60., and therefore intended to sell for at least $120. i passed entirely on a necklace of BRIGHT (read "phony-looking") RED beads, that would have set me back $110. I read through their handout, in which they rationalize why it's OK to sell this stuff as "amber." They even admit it has been autoclaved. (Heated.)

At the Gem Mall (near the Holidome), at Wild Things Beads (the people I went to the Czech Republic with in May), I bought two strands of plastic beads, that resemble the many ellipsoidal shapes we seen (as from Africa and the Middle "East, imitating amber), but that, in this instance, are nearly colorless and somewhat gray, with a certain chatoyance. Nice looking, and not expensive.

Also at the Gem Mall, I finally managed to go to the silver wholesaler who has a room full of beads and findings, and bought scads of these and gold plated and gold-filled beads and clasps for future use.

It was still early, so we returned to the Grant Inn. Bassem did not come in today, because the place where he's staying had a burst pipe overnight, and I guess it was a mess, and he couldn't bathe today. Tomorrow, he is having dinner with us, and showing the Group a selection of his beads—which I am sure they will enjoy.

At Hands of the Hills, Steve Dunning and I chatted for a short time, and he gave me a necklace of new pumtek beads—of the type that have incomplete patterns, due to the lack of porosity of certain areas of the stone. Very kind of him. I bought a few strands new Afghan serpentine beads.

More later. Jamey

I scarcely need to tell you that a red hot needle yields that horrid scorching smell...

When casein is hot-point tested, it also yields a nasty "burning hair" smell. It is sometimes difficult to distinguish between horn and casein. From the 1970s, I had some antique translucent faceted beads, given to me as "amber"—that for years I thought were horn. But they are casein....

Jamey

This was sold as serpentine, I assume Chinese. The beads are very smooth, appear to have wear.

Hello WenP,

Your beads do look like Chinese serpentine.

Serpentine can be easily distinguished from jade and other hard stones by its relative low hardness. A steel point easily makes a scratch into serpentine.

The cut of these beads is popularly called the "baroque" or "finger-bone" shape. It is very typical of many turquoise and amber beads, but also other materials—and these are nearly always Chinese beads.

Because serpentine is a soft material, manufacturers can make the surface appear softly matted (not shiny), and make the beads appear to have some age when they are rather recent. Also, since the material is soft, a bit of wear translates in people's minds as indicating greater age than may be likely.

I hope this helps. Jamey

Here is one area where I would humbly suggest I have some expertise, based on a PhD in Polymer Science and Engineering. Bakelite is the trade name of one particular phenol-formaldehyde resin formulation, to which wood powder or other materials was usually added as a filler. These materials are generically called phenolic resins.

Bakelite was invented by a Belgian chemist who emigrated to the US, Dr. Leo Baekeland. So it is proper to capitalize Bakelite. It is also true that the name of this plastic has become almost a generic term (like kleenex for all Kleenex-like tissues), so I sometimes see it written bakelite.

When the patent for Bakelite expired in 1927, the production of this particular phenolic resin took off and many different companies began producing filled and unfilled phenolic resin molded parts as well as bar, sheet, and rod stock. Other trade names for phenolic resins were introduced, including Catalin and Marblette. The materials were made with all sorts of fillers, colorants, and marbling effects, or unfilled and clear. I believe it was at this point in time that phenolic resin rod stock began to be imported into Africa, where it was worked into beads. I also think I read somewhere that a lot or most of this raw stock was made in Germany.

It may be that many phenolic resin beads are, in fact, made of the original Bakelite resin formulation and/or from stock produced by the original Bakelite Corp. But unless you know for sure, calling them by their generic material class, phenolic resin, would be best, since otherwise you are claiming a provenance that can't be verified.

Hi Rosanna,

Your post says pretty much what I posted on January 12th on this topic—and is therefore confirming of my exposition. Thanks for that!

One comment about "African amber" (or "copal") beads.

Apparently, many of these beads were made in Europe (I'm told Germany), and exported to West and East Africa (I'm told often by French companies). So these were essentially trade beads (this taking place within the Trade Bead Period, as I define it).

Nevertheless, a very few references mention that rods from Europe have been cut into beads in Africa. I do not doubt this is the truth. I don't know when this commenced, or where in particular it happened. I do believe that phenolic beads were passed-off as "amber" for a time, and then as "pressed amber" at a (presumably) later time. Once rods were in the possession of African beadmakers, one might think their actual content could be understood. However, if this stuff was said to be "pressed amber" (or whatever the sellers might call it), the subterfuge could be extended. (Actual pressed amber IS often formed into rods for beadmaking and turning. But this post-dates the use of the centrifuge for pushing hot soft amber into a rod mold.)

I don't know of a way to distinguish between European phenolic fake-amber beads and African-made phenolic fake-amber beads. But I would guess that the former outnumber the latter.

In any event, African bead sellers continue to believe that phenolic plastic (and other plastics) beads are truly "amber"—though I disproved this authoritatively in 1976. Old ideas die a slow painful death.

Some thoughts to consider.

Jamey

Hi Jamey,

First off, I was one of those people who believed these phenolic resin beads were REAL amber for at least twenty years until you enlighted me about twelve years ago as to what they actually are.

I have seen thousands of these beads over the last thirty five years and there seems to be standard sizes and shapes which leads me to believe these were factory made, to a set standard, most likely in Europe. As you mentioned as well.

Additionally, I think most of the odd shapes, diamond shapes and beads with carved designs were re-shaped in Africa from European made beads. Also, I think most of the dark colored beads were enhanced with heat in Africa as well.

Carl

Hi Carl,

I agree with you.

To some degree, since the beads are cut from molded or extruded rods, that most likely are/were made in standard sizes, there would be a tendency for resulting beads to be (more or less) standard sizes. Length would be slightly more variable, but anyone would probably be after a good-looking product. Making beads from rods facilitates this. the common way to form beads from rods is lathe-turning—which is used by beamakers for all sorts of beads, including wood and bone (such as for prayer beads).

Among the diamond tabular beads, mostly associated with Mauritania (and perhaps Mali), there are two groups. However, largely, both groups are recycled.

The more common plastic beads are made by taking an already-made oblate bead, turning the perforation "up," and cutting the bead on four sides. Plus, of course, the beads are drilled ACROSS their original perforations. This displays the swirly interior of the beads much better than it can be seen when the beads are strung normally. In some presentations, the original perforation is filled with a small bead—often a red cornaline d;Aleppo, for some color contrast.

The second group consists of actual amber beads that have been recycled. I expect many of these were broken beads. In these instances, the original perforation may be seen on the "back" of the beads, and may be longitudinal—though some are conformed like the plastic beads.

Regarding the red or dark beads, it's a toss-up. I do agree that many may have been heated in Africa. It's fairly easy to do, and I have done it myself quite a few times (before any red beads came into the CA marketplace where I lived). However, noting the popularity of "cherry amber" throughout the world, I would be surprised if European makers did not also make red beads for export. There are at least two groups of these beads. Some are red throughout their mass, and some are only superficially red (and are yellow below the surface). I suppose the latter could be accomplished with dyes. (I myself have dyed these beads upon occasion.) But anyone with a dye-pot and some dyes could do this as well.

Have a good one. Jamey

The operative sentence below is: “ The brecciated marbles are composed of angular fragments....”

http://chestofbooks.com/reference/American-Cyclopaedia-7/Marble.html

"It is also of variegated colors, and sometimes is of brecciated structure, evidently made up of fragments of an older rock, the layers of which, broken up and confusedly rearranged, have been cemented together. Though thus varying greatly in color, texture, and structure, the composition of marble is for the most part essentially the same; it is a carbonate of lime, or a combined carbonate of lime and carbonate of magnesia, and is readily burned to quicklime.

The following are convenient divisions in which marbles may be arranged for a general notice of the most important of them: 1, the simple or single-colored marbles; 2, the variegated; 3, the brecciated; 4, the lumachella or fossiliferous. These sorts, however, pass into each other, so that some may be placed indifferently either in one or the other of two groups.

The marbles of this class found in the United States east of the Rocky mountains have not attained much celebrity, nor do we know of any worthy of it, unless we should include among them certain varieties of the brecciated marbles from northern Vermont and Tennessee. The gray and white clouded limestones of Thomaston, Me., are quarried to considerable extent for marble, and may be seen in common use in portions of the eastern states. They possess little beauty. California has furnished of this class some very showy marble of brilliant reddish and brownish colors, and susceptible of a high polish. It is imported into New York and used for mantels. 3. The brecciated marbles are composed of angular fragments, it may be of various mineral substances, united in a bed or paste of calcareous cement; or the mass may be so divided by numerous veins into pieces as to present the appearance of broken fragments irregularly united. Brocatellas are breccias, in which the fragments are very small; we incorrectly apply the name only to a reddish brecciated marble brought to this country from Spain. The varieties of this class are very numerous; but some of the most celebrated are never seen here, such as those called le grand deuil and le petit deuil, literally the full mourning and the half mourning.

These come from the Pyrenees and different parts of France; they are of a black ground spotted with white fragments. Among the brecciated marbles of the United States, the best known is that of the Potomac on the Maryland side, some miles below the Point of Rocks. The principal use that has been made of it was to furnish the columns in the old chamber of representatives at Washington. The irregularities of hardness in the different ingredients render it an expensive stone to work; still the quarries are deserving of more than government patronage. The stone is certainly handsomer than the Italian red and white breccia imported for the inner columns of the central arched entrance of the church before mentioned. Quarries have been opened in the northern part of Vermont, near Lake Champlain, which produce the most beautiful of the American colored marbles. They are brecciated, though they pass into the variegated. They present a great variety of colors, from a deep red, traversed with veins of white, to rose-tinted flesh color mottled with whitish spots. In some specimens the brecciated structure is very strongly marked, the fragments being large with sharp edges and of decided shades of dark red, drab, and salmon, upon a ground of white bordered with rose."

CLEARLY, the beads being discussed in this thread are NOT "brecciated" anything. The patterns are rounded, and look like melted glass. Further, the dispersion patterns within the pale glass, where the glass has tended to separate due to over-heating, is typical of many beads that imitate minerals. These beads are not "calcium."

JDA.

Hi Peter,

They are consistent with many faceted German Baltic amber beads from the late 19th/early 20th Cs. I own some myself.

However, amber cannot be authenticated from a photo (with rather few exceptions). You need to perform simple tests to verify what you have. I recommend, in this sequence, the rub test, the brine text, and the hot-point test.

You can read all about these tests at my Group. (See below.) Also, past discussions here.

I hope this is helpful. Jamey

Carl
I am very interested in your response to Melissa - are you saying that there are phenolic resin faux amber beads which DO FLOAT in a saturated saline solution? This seems contrary to almost everything I've heard or read about phenolic "amber". Could you give an example? Could her beads be reconstituted material, beads remade from the scraps of legitimate amber bead production? I've had a couple of them, they look very suspicious because of their new look and common shapes, but in fact have always passed the salt-water float test. Thanks

Dear Waheeno,

Please refer to the link for my advice on terminology.

People sometimes have oversimplified ideas about the brine test. They think that a material that sinks is plastic, and that which floats is amber. The variables are more complicated.

Among plastics, phenolic plastics will sink in a brine (like a rock)—because their specific gravity is high. However old Celluloid also sinks in brine; but few other plastics will sink. Many thermolabile (meltable) plastics will float in brine. Some will even float in plain water (which amber will not).

The majority of semi-realistic amber imitations, since 1926, have been cast phenolics—and the brine test can be used to determine this quickly for a large number of imitations. I don't believe any phenolic plastics will float in brine.

Nevertheless, as I demonstrated in my 1976 article on amber beads, some imitations—including those from West Africa—are made from soft thermolabile plastics that float in brine. For me, these are visually recognizable. But, when in doubt, I would hot-point test them. The odor produced is a sticky-sweet plastic smell, and the material melts easily and may "spin a thread." Other plastics have aromas typical of their types. For instance, acrylic is fruity.

I recommend my Group, Amber Forever, for more thorough information about testing amber and "amber."

Be well. Jamey

Hi Jamey,

About ten years ago I saw maybe five (24 inch) strands of these phenolic resin beads from an African bead trader. All of them had these burned in patterns/designs like the ones shown in the original post and ALL of them were this basic bead shape.

I think they are recent production, perhaps being made in the last 10-20 years and then the designs were created later.

Carl

Part Three of my Amber Series for The Bead Journal in 1976 included a cover image that included my decorated beads. At that time, I was told that Africans were very interested in these specimens--because they had not seen such beads.

JDA.

The green ones are approx 18mm. I have had both strands about 15 years.

The second strand is a mix of Tourmaline and bakelite??? carved to simulate coral.Any knowledge/speculation of origin and date?

What is the distinction between bakelite and phenolic resin?

makeup?
age?
origin?

all of the above?

Thank you in advance

Hi Kathleen,

The clear green beads look like glass. Are you certain they are some kind of plastic?

The carved pink beads are NOT phenolic, but rather are casein (an artificial material made from milk proteins). (1920s or '30s.)

I have explained the issue of Bakelite vs other phenolics so often, someone should be paying me....

Bakelite was patented in 1907 by L H Baekeland (a Belgian working in the US), and named after him. Bakelite is the first thermosetting phenolic plastic. It was manufactured from a prepared granular powder that was dry-molded and heated to fusion--whereupon its structure became permanent. (It is not refusable like a thermplastic, or a thermolabile plastic—these melting when heated and hardening when cooled.) Bakelite routinely had/has fillers (such as asbestos or wood fiber) that make it opaque—and it is ALWAYS dark or dingy in color. Typical colors are black, brown, khaki, and sometimes these colors mottled together.

Bakelite is NOT a pretty material, though there are some handsome applications. Mostly, it was used as an industrial material, where beauty is not much of an issue.

By 1926, after much experimentation, the Bakelite Company patented their line of CAST PHENOLIC PLASTICS. These materials are made from a liquid resin (thus are CAST, AND NOT DRY-MOLDED). They did not require strengthening or harding additives that caused opacity. This allowed these materials to be translucent and dyed any color (for which there were dyes). Plus, by adding some opacifiers or different colors together, swirled concoctions could be produced. (The yellow ones look like amber!).

Cast phenolic plastics are the ones used for colorful jewelry that began in 1926 through the 1930s, and into the present.

There is practically no such thing as "vintage Bakelite jewelry" (particularly if translucent colorful pieces are being discussed). The only things Bakelite could be used to make would be imitations of jet or other dark opaque materials. The vast majority of pieces so-identified ARE NOT BAKELITE, and post-date 1926.

Another company made a product called Catalin--and some collectors use this name to identify cast phenolic plastics (the way "Kleenex" is used for all facial tissues, regardless of actual brands). But not everyone agrees with this practice. Many people do not appreciate that the material is DIFFERENT FROM ACTUAL BAKELITE, and they insist of calling it by that name. And some say that since it was made by the Bakelite Corporation, "it is also Bakelite."

However, while that's a convenient rationale, it is not accurate. Bakelite is a different material.

If the Bakelite Company went into the diamond business tomorrow, would their diamonds be "Bakelite"?

If you read my amber article from 1976, you will find that I characterized the fake-amber or fake-copal beads (that I was exposing for what they really are) as being made from "Bakelite-like plastics." I knew they were not Bakelite, but I knew they were thermosetting phenolic plastics. I was not entirely sure what all the specific details were (though I came to know that translucent phenolic plastics were made as early as 1926)..., until 1985, when I met a vintage plastics collector (Catherine Yronwood), who understood these issues and helped me understand them better. She showed me the professional manufacturing announcements from Bakelite that proclaimed this new material in 1926. (That she found in the NYC Public Library.) Catherine was a proponent of using "Catalin" as a substitute for "Bakelite."

Read the Wikipedia article below, and notice it says NOTHING about jewelry manufacture.

More to come. Jamey

It is amazing to me that dozens of books have been written about "vintage Bakelite" and collectible plastics jewelry—that NEVER MENTION this stuff isn't actually Bakelite.

I have promoted the distinction for thirty-five years, and I've given numerous lectures on the topics of amber (1978), and collectible plastic beads and jewelry (1986), to quite a few audiences.

People do not like being told that their amber is fake. And collectors of old plastic do not like being told theirs is not "Bakelite."

These topics inspire considerable emotionally-charged consternation. I am accustomed to being rejected and dismissed, because I say unpopular but true things. I am the Cassandra of the Bead World. It is my cross to bear....

If you're interested in the topic of Catalin, read the Wikipedia article below.

JDA.

for Bakelite. It's no more complicated than that. It's all the same phenol formaldehyde. Call it whatever you want, but if you want to sell it, call it "amber".

Mr. Kiki still has not gotten it.

I stand by what I have written, and not some twisted version, regurgitated for an audience that can read for themselves what I said.

"Bakelite" is a registered trademark of the Bakelite Corporation. "Catalin" is likewise the registered name used by THAT company, for their product(s).

The differences between Bakelite and any other dry-molded phenolic plastic, compared to any other cast-phenolic plastics has already been discussed. No amount of saying "it's all Bakelite" will change the historical facts.

I repeat, I HAVE SEEN the professional announcements that were originally produced to advertise the NEW production of cast phenolics in 1926. This is how I know and am confident this is the correct year. (Not "1928" as published in some of the literature I have also reviewed, in my copious investigations to understand these issues.)

JDA.

Hello Peter,

I'm not following the import of your comments.

Translucent phenolic plastics used to make imitation amber beads (from 1926 and later) are said to have been made in Germany, and are also said to have been brought into Africa by the French--and specifically through Morocco and Egypt.

However, all this is more anecdotal than historically documented. (As far as I know.)

I have no reason to believe these fake amber beads were in "German East Africa" sooner than elsewhere. And, in fact, I suspect the opposite.

In the 1970s, based on my observations, I suggested that oblate beads were more common in West Africa, and ellipsoidal beads more common in East Africa—and that the Eastern beads tended to be more often used as prayer beads, or in constructions that suggested a Muslim tradition.

If the designs on the beads you have shown were not burnt-in, how were they made?

Jamey

I was near the end of a more explanatory reply when my computer updated a program and closed on me without warning and I lost my text.
Given the development of plastic in general, of which I have no knowledge, it would appear that the Germans would not have brought the beads into East Africa since they lost it with WWI. The borders of those countries have changed since the following British and Belgian occupation then the UN mandate. You have answered that question. Thanks.
I discovered before first posting that the beads were not incised nor burned in. The decoration is a surface application with hints of a metallic with the red in some places where the remnants of decoration can be seen. Aside from 3 being matching cylindrical and a different shade and the others ovoid, there are internal streaks in the cylinders and 2 of the ovoids which have remnants of a probable different surface decoration. Then there is another 2 with what appears to be another surface decoration and yet another two. There is dimpling at the holes in some of the ovoids but not others. The last group of 6 with what appears to be another pattern decoration show both dimpling and non dimpling and some unevenly cut ends.
I haven't done specific gravity testing since my lapidary days and am obviously not familiar with amber since I never worked with it or used it.
So we have 5 groups in 15 beads! It would appear that 4 groups totaling 12 could be from a multi-patterned set which was well worn as jewelry. I have no idea as to the other three.
Now that we have somewhat determined the chemistry and age, the question remains as to what did they originally looked like? If they are indeed beads made in Europe and traded and worn in Africa, who wore them (as suggested by looking at old National Geographic magazines and what did they originally look like?
If you are as curious as I am, I'd be happy to send them to you for examination. I just hope they are beads; and the 3 are not of 4 from a 1930's Tonka-Truck-type toy and the others from fish floats or similar object!

I recommend my Group for studying amber beads at Yahoo. There is quite a lot of useful information there. The topic of plastic imitations is also considerably discussed.

JDA.

Hi Jamey and Russ,

Yes Jamey they do have a "pearly sheen" - similar to that of fiber optic glass sheen - The size is 15mm x 13mm with a 3mm hole.

What is your interpretation of "recent"? And I do not know how to determine type of plastic(s), - plastic smells like plastic - but I cannot differentiate types of plastic. (amber smells like sap)

the red/amber strand of beads measure 12mm x 7mm to 20mm x 16mm - 2.5 - 3mm hole.

I assume they imitate/simulate amber but could not remember their story. I purchased years ago as stated.

Both were purchased through some of my African vendors.
Close up images attached.

Warm Regards,

These are very general questions. Have you tried to do a Search of the Archives here?

I moderate four Yahoo Groups, where I also post advice about beads. One is about all sorts of beads, and one is devoted to amber:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/beadcollectors/

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/amberisforever/

(Links to each Group can be found in the primary Group.)

The PDF I posted in the Amber Group will explain what you can do to test amber and "amber."

Jamey

One thing I'll mention is that Beadman had told us in the past that most turquoise stone known in Tibet was probably actually mined in China, even the older pieces. Tibetans seem to have a cultural dislike of digging into the earth for mining activities. Please correct me if I misquoted you in any way, Jamey.

The turquoise mined in China is very beautiful. It is a very nice stone. It is traded all over the world, as it was long ago traded, into Tibet and elsewhere. It was common for stone to go to India first to be shaped into beads by the established lapidary industry.

Be thankful if it was real turquoise and not one of the endless types of dyed and faked turquoise.

I know you were the seller, and not the buyer, but some of the riskiest items to buy online at the auction site are turquoise, amber, coral, and precious metals. Mis-identification is widespread. I've been a victim. Tiring of returning items, I now avoid certain categories unless I feel very confident with the seller and the photos.